Pistol Purchase Advice per pangloss

[HopetonBrown]

Civilians do have to manage people sometimes. Split times aren't that big a deal in determining who wins the fight. If you want to attack the facts, let's hear it. If not, what's your point?

I said Joe CCW isn't managing people like a Fed. You said the same thing just using different words.

Psalms brought up split times, not me.

My point?

Earlier I asked when does shootability come into play?

You seem to have woken up from a nap where someone was making an argument against DA triggers, and then projected that onto me.

I'm questioning why someone wants a DAO trigger. Not a TDA, not a LEM, not a DAK.

Is there no shades of gray?

[TheNewbie]

I said Joe CCW isn't managing people like a Fed. You said the same thing just using different words.

Psalms brought up split times, not me.

My point?

Earlier I asked when does shootability come into play?

You seem to have woken up from a nap where someone was making an argument against DA triggers, and then projected that onto me.

I'm questioning why someone wants a DAO trigger. Not a TDA, not a LEM, not a DAK.

Is there no shades of gray?

DAK is not offered in a polymer pistol.

TDA you have to decock.

LEM is unique.


Those are some reasons one might choose a DAO. Plus it makes dry fire practice simple.

If I could get a DAK polymer pistol the size of the P250 compact, I probably would.

[BehindBlueI's]

Psalms brought up split times, not me.

Then I suppose both Psalms and I were confused by this:

He says it's for a carry gun so I think time would be a factor.

As in the context of your reply I'm not sure what else you would be talking about? Speed to first shot? Why would a DAO be different then, say, a TDA there?

I said Joe CCW isn't managing people like a Fed.

Yet you also said:

You can regurgitate the official PF line, but what people is this guy managing?

Which is what I responded to. Who knows what people this guy will have to manage? What's the distinction for "like a Fed" that matters here?

I'm questioning why someone wants a DAO trigger. Not a TDA, not a LEM, not a DAK.

Is there no shades of gray?

Largely, they don't any more. Nor do they want a LEM or DAK. "Shootability" concerns have overwhelmed the concerns that the DAO, LEM, and DAK systems address outside of department purchases. However I'm sure you are already familiar with why. Increased margin of safety against unintended discharges from trigger checks, reducing the sewing machine cyclical rate to shooting at "assessment speed", a hammer to thumb while holstering, I'm sure none of these arguments are new to you, as isn't that what you blew off with the "regurgitate the official PF line" comment?

What shades of gray are you concerned with?

[HopetonBrown]

Then I suppose both Psalms and I were confused by this:



As in the context of your reply I'm not sure what else you would be talking about? Speed to first shot? Why would a DAO be different then, say, a TDA there?

Like I said before, I thought HCM was talking about slow fire bullseye shooting, like 25 yard B8s.

Yet you also said:

Which is what I responded to. Who knows what people this guy will have to manage? What's the distinction for "like a Fed" that matters here?

The distinction is that law enforcement frequently point their guns at people as a part of their profession to gain compliance, Joe CCW does not frequently point their guns at people to gain compliance.

What shades of gray are you concerned with?

Somewhere between a P250 and a fully Zev'd Glock there are probably handguns that are more equal in terms of shootability and safety.

[Aisin Gioro]

The distinction is that law enforcement frequently point their guns at people as a part of their profession to gain compliance, Joe CCW does not frequently point their guns at people to gain compliance.

While it's certainly true that LEOs point guns at people to gain compliance with greater frequency, frequency is only one aspect of the issue (though even the largely anti-gun CDC estimates up to 3 million defensive gun uses per year, so it's probably not as rare as it might seem). The main distinction is that LEOs generally have an additional duty to intervene and point guns at people, while non-LEOs would only have the necessity to point guns at people when lawfully in the immediate defense of life, in situations that are thrust upon them. If a person is in a defensive situation and has to point a gun at someone, it is in that incident when the two can - and sometimes do - converge. There is often a lot of talk about "fight/flight" responses, but a more appropriate description often used in behavioral science is the "fight/flight/freeze" response. Not every bad guy will run or attack if a person defends themselves, some will react to the situation by freezing up. In effect, compliance gets thrown in by the perpetrator.

If a person draws and the attacker stops in his tracks and says, "Oh God, please don't shoot me!" and stands there with his hands up, suddenly they are in a very different situation than they were a second before, and it's best for everyone if good people management skills and equipment are in play. (I suppose you could ask them nicely to leave, but even then, there's no guarantee that they will.) If it happens often for LEOs, it's more examples, but even a single time is a critical life event for anybody, LEO or not.

[TheNewbie]

REgarding the P250. I contacted Sig today.

The rep said they can still service the P250 and sell most,but not all, of the parts for it.

[BillSWPA]

I just scanned through the thread quickly and maybe I missed it, but I don't see any discussion of:

1) OP's shooting experience
2) OP's occupation, and whether he plans to carry at work
3) OP's normal mode of dress, as well as how often and under what circumstances does the OP need to deviate from his normal

I see a good discussion about the features, strengths, and weaknesses of various guns, but I don't see how a recommendation can be made without some understanding of the person who will be carrying the gun.

[gunrascal]

I just scanned through the thread quickly and maybe I missed it, but I don't see any discussion of:

1) OP's shooting experience started getting shooting lessons at age 8; been shooting shotguns, rifles, revolvers , pistols, and air guns for about six decades
2) OP's occupation, and whether he plans to carry at work Retired
3) OP's normal mode of dress, as well as how often and under what circumstances does the OP need to deviate from his normal Since I retired, this is pretty much irrelevant to CC.

I see a good discussion about the features, strengths, and weaknesses of various guns, but I don't see how a recommendation can be made without some understanding of the person who will be carrying the gun.

there ya go

[Drang]

Glock 19.

[That Guy]

Unfortunately, JMCK dropped support for it a while ago, though IIRC @GJM said something once about the P99c fitting in PPQ holsters from JMCK, which would mean it's pretty likely that the full size would fit in a PPQ holster as well. I wouldn't assume it without testing, but I also wouldn't bet against it.

I can confirm that a first generation full size P99 fits into a JMCK PPQ IWB holster perfectly.