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Thread: I guess I'll poke the bear: Hodge

  1. #1
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    I guess I'll poke the bear: Hodge

    Quote Originally Posted by einherjarvalk View Post

    Accuracy? Hodge.
    Barrel life? Hodge.
    Ease of use? Hodge.
    Gas management and recoil impulse? Hodge.
    General receiver build quality? Hodge by a mile.
    For a couple years now I've heard about this magical unicorn of an AR made by Hodge. I've done forum searches, read threads, listened to podcasts and even visited the (wholly useless, though cleverly-marketed website; that I can't seem to find now).

    I don't see anything that stands out to me as being over-the-top awesome. Let me further clarify that I don't see anything bad either, but compared to Colt, BCM, DD, and now Centurion, what is the actual factual "stuff" that makes Hodge as awesome as the disciples clam and twice the price of these aforementioned brands? The only thing I've heard that is any kind of real special sauce is:

    1. Jim Hodge builds every rifle himself.
    2. He's very picky about his castings and has a high reject rate.

    I realize the comments in the quote I posted above are comparing the Hodge to a Spikes (for whom I have no love), but Spike's was (maybe still is, don't know, don't pay attention to them) using FN "double-thick chrome-lined machine gun steel" CHF barrels. What about the Hodge barrel gives it better life or accuracy? Gas management and recoil impulse? Anyone can drill a correctly-sized gas port. BCM and Colt do a fine job here.

    So really what's the deal or is this just the next hype?
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  2. #2
    I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I don't know anyone in real life who has one, I've never seen one, and I've not really seen any reviews that didn't seem like paid promos or done by dudes that are just reeeeeeally excited about their expensive new gun.

    Another brand was Archer. They were being pushed hard by certain groups for a while but I don't hear much from them now. I've gotten to the point where I stop looking anywhere above or below Colt and BCM. Neither have let me down so far.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Primary & Secondary is where the "purple drank" is, if you want to read the info yourself.

    But from what I understand - a Hodge rifle is put together like a Jason Burton/Heirloom Precision 1911.
    Last edited by Jay585; 03-20-2019 at 10:28 AM.
    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  4. #4
    The key to Hodge's quality, from guys I know that own one, and have seen Hodge assemble the gun in front of them, is simply his commitment to his own exacting standards, stuff as minor as roll pin alignment. Buying a Hodge gun is basically buying an artisanal AR, kinda like getting a WC Supergrade or some custom shop 1911, rather than just a WC CQB or whatever.

    Now, whether this makes any meaningful difference, eh. Some of the features, like the unique barrel (allegedly the material has some difference compared to the standard FN machine gun barrel steel), the innovative handguard attachment, etc., are going to cost extra, but they're not really anything too innovative, compared to, say, the KAC improvements on the AR platform. I haven't really heard any horror stories about Hodge, just a single anecdote about a 4 MOA gun with 77 gr BH at a class, which is admittedly not cool, but I have a friend who had an SR-15 that was shot worse than that (KAC made it right eventually, was a bur along the gas port). There are always gonna be lemons, Hodge just seems to have very few.

    At the end of the day, a my Franken-build AR that I selected all the parts for was about the same price as a new Hodge, occupying the same niche (but without the resale value), so I don't think his prices are necessarily way out of line.
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 03-20-2019 at 10:46 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay585 View Post
    Primary & Secondary is where the "purple drank" is, if you want to read the info yourself.

    But from what I understand - a Hodge rifle is put together like a Jason Burton/Heirloom Precision 1911.
    Which is all well and good, except I don't think a 1911 comparison stands, because the quality of a Colt AR is significantly higher than the base quality of a Colt 1911, and the AR design itself doesn't leave nearly as much to be gained from meticulous hand-fitting as a 1911.

    I, too, don't see much value in the top-shelf boutique AR's. If an off the shelf BCM or Colt model won't do it, Sionics has options too for a nice price. If I wanted some kind of designer top-shelf AR, I'd be buying a KAC or HK MR556. But I doubt I'll ever run a single rifle to the point where an MR556 or KAC would serve me better than the Colt options I already have.

  6. #6
    I considered getting a Hodge, but grabbed an LMT MRP instead. LMT has been having some awesome sales lately, and the design seems pretty innovative.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    I realize the comments in the quote I posted above are comparing the Hodge to a Spikes (for whom I have no love), but Spike's was (maybe still is, don't know, don't pay attention to them) using FN "double-thick chrome-lined machine gun steel" CHF barrels. What about the Hodge barrel gives it better life or accuracy? Gas management and recoil impulse? Anyone can drill a correctly-sized gas port. BCM and Colt do a fine job here.

    So really what's the deal or is this just the next hype?
    Full disclosure: my upper is not a factory Hodge AU upper, however, all the components are with the exception of the BCG.

    As mentioned, the barrel making process for Hodge's FN barrels is different, which should in theory provide longer barrel life and definitely seems to provide better accuracy than the average chrome-lined CHF barrel. The reason nobody seems to be able to find exactly how different it is is because that info is wrapped behind a lengthy NDA you have to sign before FN will spill the beans to you. I've tried to squeeze more info from the owner of Weapon Outfitters (whose recommendations and knowledge I trust), and that's about all he's been able to say.

    The gas port sizing is also extremely conservative; while I haven't measured myself, most gov contract 14.5 midlength HDSI barrels are reported to come in with a port size of around 0.0680". To my knowledge, Colt has never offered a 14.5 mid, and DD/BCM/Sionics/SOLGW all size their 14.5 mid ports at around 0.074-0.076". I know some of the "commercial spec" HDSI barrels have had larger port sizing, but given that I've heard stories of guys shooting 14.5 middy BCMs with 0.076" ports and getting them to run steel cased ammo with an H2 reliably while anything above an H1 causes M193 to choke in my rifle, I'm assuming I got the gov contract port sizing. To me, that's very important, as I intend to suppress this rifle and did not want to deal with tweaking adjustable gas blocks or buying adjustable bolt carriers or anything of the sort.

    Also, while not a performance based factor, Jim and HDSI are based out of my hometown, so that gets me to open my wallet a little wider than it normally would.

  8. #8
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by einherjarvalk View Post
    Full disclosure: my upper is not a factory Hodge AU upper, however, all the components are with the exception of the BCG.

    As mentioned, the barrel making process for Hodge's FN barrels is different, which should in theory provide longer barrel life and definitely seems to provide better accuracy than the average chrome-lined CHF barrel. The reason nobody seems to be able to find exactly how different it is is because that info is wrapped behind a lengthy NDA you have to sign before FN will spill the beans to you. I've tried to squeeze more info from the owner of Weapon Outfitters (whose recommendations and knowledge I trust), and that's about all he's been able to say.

    The gas port sizing is also extremely conservative; while I haven't measured myself, most gov contract 14.5 midlength HDSI barrels are reported to come in with a port size of around 0.0680". To my knowledge, Colt has never offered a 14.5 mid, and DD/BCM/Sionics/SOLGW all size their 14.5 mid ports at around 0.074-0.076". I know some of the "commercial spec" HDSI barrels have had larger port sizing, but given that I've heard stories of guys shooting 14.5 middy BCMs with 0.076" ports and getting them to run steel cased ammo with an H2 reliably while anything above an H1 causes M193 to choke in my rifle, I'm assuming I got the gov contract port sizing. To me, that's very important, as I intend to suppress this rifle and did not want to deal with tweaking adjustable gas blocks or buying adjustable bolt carriers or anything of the sort.

    Also, while not a performance based factor, Jim and HDSI are based out of my hometown, so that gets me to open my wallet a little wider than it normally would.
    Totally cool reasons man, and I want to reiterate that this thread wasn't in any way directed at you. Your post just gave me a few launching points of things I've heard repeated elsewhere. I'm all about controlling gas port sizing (I hate adjustable gas blocks); that's why my 10.3 is build off a 14.5" Colt SOCOM barrel that I had cut down and specified what size gas port I wanted instead of buying a factory barrel (because most are way over-gassed; the profile is an additional benefit.)
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Totally cool reasons man, and I want to reiterate that this thread wasn't in any way directed at you. Your post just gave me a few launching points of things I've heard repeated elsewhere. I'm all about controlling gas port sizing (I hate adjustable gas blocks); that's why my 10.3 is build off a 14.5" Colt SOCOM barrel that I had cut down and specified what size gas port I wanted instead of buying a factory barrel (because most are way over-gassed; the profile is an additional benefit.)
    No offense taken, and I completely understand the hesitation to buy in to the hype for any given gun, especially ARs. I've echoed other sentiments put forth in this thread when discussing the matter with other people as well. I still think a factory KAC, BCM, Colt, Sionics, SOLGW, etc. rifle is going to be far more accessible and reasonable to people wanting a "high end" AR, but for me, sentimental reasons and practical goals (gas port sizing, full compatibility with mil-spec components) pushed me to effectively clone an AU MOD 1 instead of buying an SR-15.

  10. #10
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    Interesting thread, and I still don’t understand the hype nor the ridiculous prices people are paying to even piece a Hodge together from parts since the completes are so scarce. Great marketing angle though. Although the release of FN rifles under the Hodge name kind of goes against all this personally built voodoo wizardry people speak of. I’ll take an SR15 over a Hodge any day even if it weren’t heavily discounted. In the end I guess we all get what we like, as we should.

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