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Thread: Why is Reloading a Big Part of Many Drills/Standards?

  1. #1

    Why is Reloading a Big Part of Many Drills/Standards?

    The main reason I never got into competitive shooting is because reloading seems to be a big part of a lot of drills/standards. I generally don't carry a spare mag on me so this makes the competition a lot less worthwhile to matching what a real-world encounter would look like for me. We all have limited time to train. Even if you don't sleep, you only have 24 hours in a day. Every second a person spends practicing mag reloads at speed is one second you aren't practicing the actual shooting aspect.

    I think it's fair to say that none of us are really happy with our shooting skills from an accuracy/speed perspective and could all use more time. If we were happy, we probably wouldn't be here trying to improve. Given that this is the case, all of us who spend any time practicing mag reloads at speed are taking away training time that could be used for accuracy/speed work.

    That's not to say some people don't need to practice magazine reloads. LE/MIL need it. Civilians I am not so sure. Has there been any documented cases of a civilian reloading their gun in a firefight? This has come up in the past and I think there might have been one or two situations and in neither did the reload actually make a difference because it happened after the shooting was done.

    I find myself drawn to the drills/standards that don't include reloads and I would like to get better at those. The Run Your Gun Standards and Gabe White Standards have no reloading involved.

    My best guess as to why reloading is a big part of a lot of this is that competition has relatively few things to do compared to other sports. Adding in reloading gives one more thing to do. In boxing there's only a few punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) at different angles and in different combinations. In shooting there's also only a few "things" like drawing under speed, shooting under speed, split times (follow up shots) under speed, transitioning targets under speed. Maybe some other elements I'm missing, but it's only a few in total and adding reloading gives a huge increase percentage wise of "new things" to do.

    What if instead of reloading, you did type 1 clearance drill instead? Imagine a FAST where instead of reloading you had 5 live rounds and 1 dummy round loaded in a single mag. You have to draw, shoot to the dummy round, tap/rack, and get back on target and finish the string. Instead of the dummy round always being the 3rd round, your training partner puts it in randomly in position 1 to 4. Because if you knew it was always the 3rd round, you could game the score by tap/racking without even pressing the trigger. By putting it in randomly it forces you to take the time to align the sights and press trigger on the dummy round, because you never know when it will come. Just like in real life.

    What if we modified every drill that required a reload to instead have a dummy round in your mag and do a malfunction clearance instead and adjusted the part times accordingly? That gives you the same "extra" thing to do to add more depth and the extra thing is actually something that may happen in a real civilian encounter.

    I struggle to see a real world civilian encounter that I'm reloading my handgun mag. Even if I did carry a spare mag, when do I reload? I've already fired 7 to 16 rounds on the threat (depending on if carrying G43 or G19). And now, after firing those 7 to 16 rounds the following all must apply:

    • The threat still exists
    • The threat is still a lethal threat
    • The threat is far enough away that reloading my gun makes more sense than punching him in the face or muzzle striking with the gun
    • But the threat is not so far away that I cannot run away to escape


    It's really unlikely for me to be in a lethal force encounter outside of my home given use of situational awareness and avoidance techniques. And now not only has that unlikely event occured, but I've mag dumped or I've shot to malfunction and my type 1 clearance (tap/rack) has also failed, and all four of those other things in bullet points are true. Man, that's one really unlucky day!

    To include reloading in competition means that not only am I training for that extremely unlikely fringe situation (which I'm not sure has ever actually happened in the US to a civilian), but that I've modified my EDC towards that extremely unlikely fringe situation by carrying a spare magazine with me at all times.

    I'm open to having my mind changed about carrying a spare mag if anyone can point to actual documented situations where it has made a difference or would have made a difference. I'm also open to reconsidering my opinion on civilian-based competition and drills that include reloading as part of it. And I'd like to explore the possibility of exclusively focusing my training on drills/standards that don't include mag changes.

  2. #2
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    First: unless the only ammunition you shoot at the range is the ammunition you carry, and you wait till you get home to administratively reload, *you are already practicing reloading at the range*. You can choose to either make those reps valuable, or basically worthless. If you only take one magazine with you, and reload from your box of ammo between each string, your administrative reloading will be very practiced. But that is basically worthless. If you take two or more magazines, and have at least a pocket to put your second magazine in, you can easily shoot a drill, and reload your gun as if it were actually an important skill to learn and practice without adding any significant burden of time to your range sessions. I have taken to loading all of my practice magazines before I go to the range, so my time there is actually spent shooting, doing the drills I decided on.

    How big are your magazines? If you are carrying a Shield or PPS or G43, your magazines are tiny. It may be that in any given bad day where someone needs to use their gun, the Shield’s on-board ammo is all they will need to get through. But: what about after? Do you want to be standing there with one or two or zero rounds left when the baddies come back with the AK they just grabbed from the car? What does it cost you to pull a spare magazine out of your pocket and reload your gun before you holster it? You choose: empty gun, or loaded one. I choose loaded. I would submit that the burden isn’t as big a deal as you seem to think it is. It can be in a magazine carrier, or in your man bag, or in your pocket next to your wallet. Not having it could cost a lot more than the burden of carrying it.

    If you are diligently practicing malfunction clearance drills, good on you. You do realize that the most common malfunctions in otherwise functioning firearms are magazine failures, don’t you? The only real solution to a magazine failure is replacing the magazine.

    You do you. But I disagree with your premise that carrying a spare magazine and practicing reloading are wastes of time. That doesn’t mean that it is where we would benefit from spending a lot of time, unless you are shaving tenths on competition skills. I’m not there yet, personally. I don’t spend a lot of time working my reload speed. I just incorporate reloading into my shooting practice, because competence with a gun does include ammunition management and reasonably efficient reloading.

    Final points: The fight will probably not go the way you or I envision it. It will simply be what it is. Extra ammo is not that big a burden to carry. It may be useful. If you need it and don’t have it, that choice you made limits your options when it may actually make a difference.

  3. #3
    Admittedly, I don't "practice" reloads in the strict sense of the word, but I have to reload while I'm practicing anyway, so why not use the time to my advantage since I'm doing it anyway?

    I run drills with my 38 snub as often as I do with my VP9, and I always use speed loaders and speed strips just to stay in the habit. Odds of needing to reload a five shot revolver is higher than changing a 15 round magazine.


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    I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

  4. #4
    The only two reasons I need to carry extra magazine(s) are:
    1. Magazine failure
    2. Double feed

    In the unlikely event of either occurring, it would be good to have the equipment and skills to solve it.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powell556 View Post
    Why is Reloading a Big Part of Many Drills/Standards?

    It's easy to run the numbers.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by powell556 View Post
    Every second a person spends practicing mag reloads at speed is one second you aren't practicing the actual shooting aspect.
    And yet in my experience, if you took all the tac-timmy's I've met who poo poo competition and put them on on one side, and the guys who compete on another side, the competition side would completely destroy the timmy's in all aspects of gun handling and marksmanship.

  7. #7
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    I shoot USPSA in Production. I am restricted to 10 rounds in a magazine at the start. I usually shoot such that I have at least one and sometimes three reloads on a stage.

    Fumbling a reload would cost me a lot of time. So I practice it.

    I do not carry a reload. I hope this will not get me kilt in the streetz.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    When I was learning how to drive I was taught to parallel park. I don't do it that often, but someone with more experience thought it might be a nice tool in my tool box. When I was a sailor I was taught to abandon ship and swim for it. The chances of me having to go aquatic were extremely rare, but someone with more experience than me thought it might be a good thing to know, just in case. When I was a cop I did cop shit, so I carried extra mags and trained to reload my weapon. I never had occasion to run one dry, but my experience indicated it was a good tool to have in the tool box. I don't do cop shit anymore, but I still carry one or two reloads depending on capacity, because my experience has indicated that shit happens and sometimes it flies in unexpectedly from sideways. An extra mag on the belt or in the pocket is so inconsequential I just don't understand the controversy. I practice reloading my weapon because it's a fundamental part of the weapons manual of arms. I don't consider hours spent perfecting a lighting fast reload to be necessary for street level work. However, I find any argument against practicing the movements of reloading to be intellectually lazy.

    I also have no interest in changing your mind.
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  9. #9
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    In a nutshell, it's a non-issue for civilian carriers and almost every LEO encounter. It's not something I would prioritize in the slightest if you have limited training time and/or the more likely limited training motivation. I could find 5 minutes a day to dedicate to reload training if I wanted to, and I did when I was chasing a FAST score that would impress nobody but me anyway. My motivation is lacking, not my time.

    If you want to work on it, knock yourself out. If you don't, it's EXTREMELY unlikely to ever make a difference regardless of if you are sworn or not.

    I carry a spare magazine mostly as a psychological safety blanket.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  10. #10
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Competition is a lot better if it’s entertaining, and two-to-four round realistic scenarios make for very little entertainment. People like to bust caps. That leads to high round counts which leads to reloads, and a reload takes so much longer than shooting a target that it is a disproportionately valuable skill. That’s just how shooting competitions are. The best way to avoid needing to be good at a bunch of useless bullshit and still shoot well under stress is to get involved in a training group and shoot surprise stages and man on man drills. It kicks the shit out of competition for skill building but is hard to hold together.

    One reason some people incorporate reloads in drills is that it forces a regrip or a disruption, and that has value. I prefer when it’s done with movement or the like, but it’s fine.
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