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Thread: New Zealand Mosque Shooting

  1. #251
    https://www.npr.org/2019/03/20/70536...n-christchurch

    New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced Thursday that the government will ban "military-style semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles," in an attempt to head-off "the kind of horror and attack that we saw on Friday." She said the outlawed weapons will be listed on a website and are the type that were used in the attack on two mosques in Christchurch last week.

    Ardern urged all New Zealanders who possess the guns that will be outlawed to begin immediately to fill out forms on the website and make arrangements to hand-in the weapons to police – and even if they are not able to access the online form, not to arrive unannounced at police stations with the guns.

    She said the government will create a buy-back program to pay owners "fair and reasonable compensation," which she estimated could cost the country between $100 million and $200 million. She said the guns will eventually be destroyed.

    She said no one will be prosecuted over any weapons they turn in. "Amnesty applies," she said. "We just want the guns back."

    The prime minister emphasized that firearms play a legitimate role in New Zealand life, especially in rural areas, where she noted they are used for pest control, animal welfare and recreation.

    She also said ownership of firearms is a privilege in New Zealand and not a right.

    Ardern said further restrictions will be established by law on large magazines and guns that are altered to increase weapons' killing power.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Well, the devil is in the details.

    He was "active" for 36 minutes. He also left the first site before police arrived, drove across town to another site...….so all that drive time he was still "active".

    Quite a bit different than police taking 36 minutes to get to the scene.
    How long did it take armed officers (I have gathered that NZ is a polity where cops aren’t routinely armed) to arrive at either/both scenes?


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  3. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Well, the devil is in the details.

    He was "active" for 36 minutes. He also left the first site before police arrived, drove across town to another site...….so all that drive time he was still "active".

    Quite a bit different than police taking 36 minutes to get to the scene.
    Some are saying it was a near miss, that he got away just prior to them arriving, others are saying it was 20-30 minutes before they got to the first scene.

    The only timeline I've heard NZ officials give is the 36 minutes until he was in custody. If it were a near miss, it'd be in their best interest to put that info out there.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    Some are saying it was a near miss, that he got away just prior to them arriving, others are saying it was 20-30 minutes before they got to the first scene.

    The only timeline I've heard NZ officials give is the 36 minutes until he was in custody. If it were a near miss, it'd be in their best interest to put that info out there.
    The subject passed multiple cars running sirens within the first minute or so after leaving the first scene. I'd wager those were police, so I'd bank on the near miss prospect at the first scene. What's unknown is what their purpose was.....Wikipedia actually has a pretty good description of how police are armed in NZ. Apparently they don't routinely carry their Glock 17, but "the majority" wear a holster attachment on their gear (something similar to a Safariland QLS, I'm guessing) and don the holstered Glock from their trunk if needed. In addition, "the majority" have patrol rifles in their trunks.

    Who knows whether it could really be considered a near miss, though. It could've been unarmed cops who were closest and only arriving to setup the outer cordon to direct traffic away from the scene.

    Another thing to consider is that right of bang, there's still "dwell time" before emergency services can get going due to what is essentially the OODA loop of the people on scene. If you watch dash cams in the US, it's readily apparent that witnesses usually debate for a minute or two before calling 911. In active shooter incidents in the US, many people in the targeted building usually hesitate to leave. People are trained into inaction, and try to rationalize what they see/smell/hear in sentinel events as something normal. "At first, I thought it was a nail-gun" being a common one for survivors of active shooters. I'm going to danger that this situation for bystanders was no different, given people were still loitering around the immediate area.

    It's one of the reasons that the US Dept of State's 1 week high threat orientation course for foreign service officers covers not just tac-med and driving, but also an afternoon session of literally listening to someone shoot various types of guns, the goal being they can identify and act instead of hesitating.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  5. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Well, the devil is in the details.

    He was "active" for 36 minutes. He also left the first site before police arrived, drove across town to another site...….so all that drive time he was still "active".

    Quite a bit different than police taking 36 minutes to get to the scene.
    All of which lends validity and creedence to the statement, "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."

    Looking at the 17-minute video, the arrival time of responding NZ police units at the Al Noor mosque can be reasonably approximated:

    First shot fired (on video) at: 6:37

    Suspect departs Al Noor Mosque: 12:27

    First NZ police unit (audio only) passes suspect's car: 15:20
    (audio of a second NZ police unit can be heard at 15:40)

    At 15:20―15:40, the suspect had been driving away from the scene (very quickly) for approximately 3 minutes. Assuming that the responding NZ police units are driving much faster than the suspect and covered in two minutes what it took the suspect three minutes to travel after leaving the Al Noor mosque, the police would have to have arrived at the Al Noor mosque approximately 11 minutes after the first shot was fired and approximately 5 minutes after the suspect left the Al Noor mosque.
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 03-21-2019 at 10:25 AM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  6. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    The subject passed multiple cars running sirens within the first minute or so after leaving the first scene. I'd wager those were police, so I'd bank on the near miss prospect at the first scene. What's unknown is what their purpose was.....Wikipedia actually has a pretty good description of how police are armed in NZ. Apparently they don't routinely carry their Glock 17, but "the majority" wear a holster attachment on their gear (something similar to a Safariland QLS, I'm guessing) and don the holstered Glock from their trunk if needed. In addition, "the majority" have patrol rifles in their trunks.

    Who knows whether it could really be considered a near miss, though. It could've been unarmed cops who were closest and only arriving to setup the outer cordon to direct traffic away from the scene.

    Another thing to consider is that right of bang, there's still "dwell time" before emergency services can get going due to what is essentially the OODA loop of the people on scene. If you watch dash cams in the US, it's readily apparent that witnesses usually debate for a minute or two before calling 911. In active shooter incidents in the US, many people in the targeted building usually hesitate to leave. People are trained into inaction, and try to rationalize what they see/smell/hear in sentinel events as something normal. "At first, I thought it was a nail-gun" being a common one for survivors of active shooters. I'm going to danger that this situation for bystanders was no different, given people were still loitering around the immediate area.

    It's one of the reasons that the US Dept of State's 1 week high threat orientation course for foreign service officers covers not just tac-med and driving, but also an afternoon session of literally listening to someone shoot various types of guns, the goal being they can identify and act instead of hesitating.
    The day of, there were people on scene that were tweeting about how long it took for the police to get to the first mosque and go in. That led to several WTF tweets from people outside NZ and someone said that calling for emergency help isn't like it is in the US. Do they not have a 911 type system in place?

    The first ones on scene being unarmed seems plausible, and another example of how retarded that practice is.

  7. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    Do they not have a 911 type system in place?
    Yes, they do. New Zealanders dial 1-1-1 instead of 9-1-1.
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 03-21-2019 at 10:37 AM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  8. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    The prime minister just announced a ban on semiautos and the liberal US media is swooning.
    Of course, they are. Did you expect otherwise?

    There is also a gun 'buy back' program in the works. That's gonna solve the problem*.



































    *of lawful firearms ownership.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  9. #259
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    West Virginia
    Some info regarding response times. This article has been edited since I first read it. Where is says "armed squad" it did say armed offenders squad. I did some googling and the Armed Offenders Squad is essentially SWAT.


    Police have also given a new timeline of how they responded.

    Police received its first 111 call at 1:41pm. The offender was apprehended at the roadside on Brougham Street 21 minutes later.

    "I can tell you that within five minutes and 39 seconds, our first responders, armed on the scene, ready to respond," Bush says.

    "Within 10 minutes our armed squad were on ready to respond, and within 21 minutes the person that is now in custody was arrested."

    The alleged gunman was in a cell at the Justice Precinct within 36 minutes of that first 111 call.

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...cid=spartanntp

  10. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by scjbash View Post
    The alleged gunman was in a cell at the Justice Precinct within 36 minutes of that first 111 call.
    Is that a typo, or it that their equivalent of our 911?

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