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Thread: losing the front sight after the muzzle flash...

  1. #1

    losing the front sight after the muzzle flash...

    One of the things I've been working on is "keeping the front sight in focus through the arc of recoil," but I keep losing track of the sight in the muzzle flash. It is like a flashbulb goes off and I can see a snapshot of where the sights were when the shot broke, but no matter how hard I try I can't seem to maintain focus on the front sight after that flash.

    I know I am not blinking - I seem to be temporarily blinded/stunned in the way someone is when you shine a bright light in their eyes. I am usually able to see the sight fall back into the rear notch, but I can't help think that I'm losing something in the interim.

    Has anyone else delt with this and, if so, how did you break through?

  2. #2
    I think it is natural to lose your front sight in the dark after firing. Biggest improvement I have found is trying different ammo, longer barrel helps burn off the powder too. I'd say the best combo I have found so far is Hornady critical duty 135 gn. Very low flash and very mild recoil out of a glock 17 and 19.

  3. #3
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    Have you had someone film you with a high speed camera to confirm that you're not blinking? Something like an IphoneX will work.

    Most of us blink when we shoot, and there's no way to stop that. Not blinking or rather the inability to blink at perception of danger, is one of the little things that separates the elite athletes from us mere mortals.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

  4. #4
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    Don't worry about... Just try to find it again right away. And don't think you have to "focus" on it. Just see it. Notice where it goes, find it, put it back on target, fire again, etc.
    A71593

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by txdpd View Post
    Have you had someone film you with a high speed camera to confirm that you're not blinking? Something like an IphoneX will work.

    Most of us blink when we shoot, and there's no way to stop that. Not blinking or rather the inability to blink at perception of danger, is one of the little things that separates the elite athletes from us mere mortals.
    Even a regular-speed phone camera will reveal this. Keep it running through the entire range session with your face and gun in frame and you'll see all sorts of humbling things.

  6. #6
    Member cor_man257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgentFix View Post
    Even a regular-speed phone camera will reveal this. Keep it running through the entire range session with your face and gun in frame and you'll see all sorts of humbling things.
    Indeed. You'll look slower than you feel, notice odd head movements and all sorts of stuff.

    Losing the front sight is something that happens to me. I definitely dont blink. It's not flash or bli k that makes me loose the sight, its that the recoil is quick and I cant keep up with my eyes for the full arc. To be honest I now shoot with a far more target focus approach and dont bother with sharp visual front sight focus on most shots. Tbis prevents the full recoil arc from being clear anyway.

    Why does it matter?

    You can't influence the shot after the sight rises, and if you're seeing the site rise and calling the shot and you see it settle back into the notch you see it as soon as you can accurately fire again. You've seen what you need to see.

    You can't break a new shot while it's up in recoil (unless working bill drills or close up doubles and stuff where sight picture becomes a crude visual reference) and you can't transition to a new target by watching the full front sight arc.

    I wouldnt worry about it. Seeing it at both ends of recoil is really hard to learn. Seeing the sight in the middle gains no information for the shot you just made or the next shot you're going to. You could instead see it rise, point your eyes at your next target where you want the sights to be, and they'll magically settle where you want on the new target (or same target next shot).

    -Cory

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    losing the front sight after the muzzle flash...

    With practice, you will see faster. More frames per second. Seeing more will give you more information about your technique, and will allow you to call your shots better—especially in awkward positions where the recoil orbit is janky.

    It’s normal to start with seeing just the endpoints. Keep paying attention! Also, if you can control the muzzle jump more, it’s easier to track the sight.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 03-23-2019 at 11:28 AM.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  8. #8
    Shot a glock 35 today and found it much easier to stay on the sights. Doubling the barrel length seemed to all but eliminate muzzle flash and the extra slide length didn't flip hardly at all, so the sight never strayed far from target. I still don't find it fun to shoot, but it was helpful in this exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by nwhpfan View Post
    And don't think you have to "focus" on it. Just see it. Notice where it goes, find it, put it back on target, fire again, etc.
    I didn't really understand what you were saying when you posted this, but I think I sort of understand now. I passed the "half test" for the first time today, but it felt very, very strange. Maybe that's partly because I struggled for a month with the P365 trying to pass the half test and the G35 did it so easily, but I think part of the reason was because it seemed more like I was passively observing the front sight rather than watching it like a hawk. Like I was no longer consciously checking, tweaking, & verifying the sight position prior to firing, but was instead almost trusting that the sights were good enough based on coarse observation.

    It was awesome and at 5 yards the shots were good enough to stay in the black, but at the same time there is this feeling of almost guilt -- like I was skipping an important step. Like wasn't I really sort of just point shooting with a coarse visual index? I dunno, it was just very strange...
    Last edited by 0ddl0t; 03-29-2019 at 01:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Like I was no longer consciously checking, tweaking, & verifying the sight position prior to firing, but was instead almost trusting that the sights were good enough based on coarse observation.

    It was awesome and at 5 yards the shots were good enough to stay in the black, but at the same time there is this feeling of almost guilt -- like I was skipping an important step. Like wasn't I really sort of just point shooting with a coarse visual index? I dunno, it was just very strange...
    This is a big part of it...

    People have been lied to and told to "Focus on the front sight" and "clear front sight" and people beleive that have to see this crystal clear front sight down to the flake of dust when the ACTUAL greatest shooters of the world continue to say "see what you need to see." Letting go, trusting, awareness is where it's at. @Clusterfrack talks about frames per second - he is right. And he's a scientist.... The more you do things the faster your brain recognizes and fills in the blanks. It will feel like things slow down but actually you are just processing faster. You process faster because you've been there before. Think of a wrestler, boxer BJJ who can role and transition and adjust, or soccer player who can cut and dart...because they have trained and been there before.

    You are on your way.
    Last edited by nwhpfan; 03-29-2019 at 09:55 AM.
    A71593

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Spot on, @nwhpfan. The brain is a huge part of seeing, so it needs to be trained to see what you need to see.

    I was practicing with my new Shadow2 Carry Optics gun yesterday and had an interesting experience that relates to this. I still don't feel comfortable shooting with a dot, even though it is super easy to see how it moves during the whole firing cycle. I just don't trust that I'm seeing what I need to see. At a recent match, I found myself feeling surprised when I hit steel, and uneasy when I shot paper. I also was shooting consistently low, and just couldn't figure out why (more on this in a moment).

    Yesterday, I set up a 50 point mini-stage with some very tight partials with about 1/4 of the lower A visible. I wanted to drill out that shooting low bullshit. And I was STILL shooting low! By about 4", right into the no-shoots. I assumed that I must be anticipating or yanking the trigger but I couldn't see the sight dipping at all. About 200 frustrating rounds later, I decided to use my backup iron sights, and guess what I wasn't shooting low anymore! Of course--I'm an idiot! Maybe the dot wasn't zeroed? Sure enough, the dot was off by exactly as much as I was "missing" by.

    Other than CF is an idiot, the message here is that I could see what I needed to see with iron sights because I'm used to shooting that way. Even though I could see even more with the dot, I could't process the information because I didn't trust it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nwhpfan View Post
    This is a big part of it...

    People have been lied to and told to "Focus on the front sight" and "clear front sight" and people beleive that have to see this crystal clear front sight down to the flake of dust when the ACTUAL greatest shooters of the world continue to say "see what you need to see." Letting go, trusting, awareness is where it's at. @Clusterfrack talks about frames per second - he is right. And he's a scientist.... The more you do things the faster your brain recognizes and fills in the blanks. It will feel like things slow down but actually you are just processing faster. You process faster because you've been there before. Think of a wrestler, boxer BJJ who can role and transition and adjust, or soccer player who can cut and dart...because they have trained and been there before.

    You are on your way.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 03-29-2019 at 10:21 AM.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

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