Disguising the Draw

[Doc_Glock]

In the Tam article thread, there has been some discussion about disguising or timing the draw when in a threat situation such as being held at gunpoint.

I would love for that discussion to have its own thread.

I, for one, am a reliable 1.8s draw to a 2” target at 5 yds from AIWB. When warmed up. 2-2.2s when cold. Which is to say, not really that fast, and I am not sure it really matters. Gabe Suarez once told me that that the timing of the draw matters a whole more than the speed of the draw.

So what are successful strategies to disguise the draw? Pocket carry has been suggested and I think it is excellent. I am personally not sure if AIWB or behind hip is better for this, they just require different strategies.

[Sal Picante]

In the Tam article thread, there has been some discussion about disguising or timing the draw when in a threat situation such as being held at gunpoint.

I would love for that discussion to have its own thread.

I, for one, am a reliable 1.8s draw to a 2” target at 5 yds from AIWB. When warmed up. 2-2.2s when cold. Which is to say, not really that fast, and I am not sure it really matters. Gabe Suarez once told me that that the timing of the draw matters a whole more than the speed of the draw.

So what are successful strategies to disguise the draw? Pocket carry has been suggested and I think it is excellent. I am personally not sure if AIWB or behind hip is better for this, they just require different strategies.

AIWB can do this pretty well... hand just slides under the shirt... Going behind the hip, etc, sometimes is a more overt, larger motion.

[BillSWPA]

Behind the hip is where most people carry their wallet. My Dad once pretended to go for his wallet while instead drawing his .38 revolver on a knife-wielding mugger. The mugger quickly ran off.



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[0ddl0t]

I wonder about using misdirection. If I was demanding someone turn over their valuables and I see them retrieve a wallet, I'm probably going to fixate on it until the transfer is complete and it is in my possession. That should give the victim the opportunity to blade his body and draw - especially if he "nervously" fumbles the transfer of valuables (who wouldn't look at a falling cell phone -- or to see if a fallen cell phone has cracked after hitting the ground?).

[JHC]

I was once face to face with a disgruntled former employee, frustrated stalker of another employee in my front yard, unexpectedly. I knew him well enough to know he was a gun owner. Quickly as the conversation began I stood with my hands on my hips then bladed with my dominant right side to the rear. I easily assumed a full grip on a BHP worn 3:30 IWB under a sweatshirt for the duration of contentious part of conversation unbeknownst. It was de-escalated nicely. That time, that was a good place to carry.

[Medusa]

I wonder about this as I, like most women, carry a purse. it’s small, and in any event I don’t believe in off body carry. I carry my purse on the right because I am left handed. Feigning anything in this scenario poses some extra technical challenges given these factors. Just something I’ve been considering.

[BehindBlueI's]

AIWB can do this pretty well... hand just slides under the shirt... Going behind the hip, etc, sometimes is a more overt, larger motion.

What are you feigning when the hand slides under your shirt?

The size of the motion is irrelevant. How expected the motion is and how natural it seems in context is what's important.

In a nutshell, the bad guy is paying the most attention to you during the initial approach and during his weapon presentation. That's when he's deciding if you are going to comply or not. Once you have, in his mind, proven yourself another cooperative victim, it becomes natural for him to pay less attention to you. Quick glances around for witnesses, checking escape routes, etc start to be seen. This is especially true with lone robbers and with experienced robbers. It is seen less with group robberies with a designated lookout(s). The weapon will often come off line with your body, often out of concern that the extended weapon is more visible to any random passerby (especially true of ATM, parking lot, and business robberies). You can see their body language relax and their eyes start to wander. This is when a disguised draw is optimal, catching them in an OODA loop. If your motion is expected and natural in the context, ie reaching for a pocket where valuables are likely to be located, that further delays their reaction as they stay in "compliant victim" mode longer.

Now, obviously if you're intervening in someone else's troubles and aren't under direct observation, more surreptitious motions may be helpful in remaining undetected. However, in those sorts of instances you should have more time when you aren't under observation AND more time to wait for an opening.

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder about this as I, like most women, carry a purse. it’s small, and in any event I don’t believe in off body carry. I carry my purse on the right because I am left handed. Feigning anything in this scenario poses some extra technical challenges given these factors. Just something I’ve been considering.

Compliance is always an option in a purse grab or wallet mugging. Reading the body language of the robber is an important step in the consideration of comply or fight.

That said, verbally explaining your motion prior to making it works pretty well. You set the expectation and because their mind is so busy with other things at the moment it wants to just accept that as long as the visual input matches. "My money is in my purse. My iphone is in my back pocket. Here, I'll give you the phone, too, just don't hurt me..."

Talking matters. It humanizes you, making it harder for them to pull the trigger, but it also ties up a bit more of their brain power as they process your words. Processing power is a finite resource, and the more that's tied up not working through the OODA loop and fighting back the better for you.

[Alpha Sierra]

What are you feigning when the hand slides under your shirt?

The size of the motion is irrelevant. How expected the motion is and how natural it seems in context is what's important.

Absolutely. The AIWB hardcore seem to think that sliding your hand under your shirt at the very front of their body is somehow subtle. It's not. It's a huge attention getter for someone who is looking at you because people typically have NO reason to reach there, ever, for any reason.

Blading slightly the strong side while reaching back, while stating "hey man let me give you my money" wins over sliding your hand under your shirt right where it can be seen.

I will give AIWB its due though. If your body is partially hidden from the chest/waist down, your arm movement will be less noticeable while reaching for a gun in front of you rather than at your side since there is little to no shoulder motion or rotation needed.

As for other situations, I would imagine it's always best to draw in a quiet, unobtrusive way if you can. Particularly if the criminal is not fixated on you. Surprise is a tactic that shouldn't be underestimated.

[CCT125US]

Regarding shot placement, what are the thoughts on center mass vs hitting the CNS? What value is placed on them? A common saying is that action beats reaction, but that is not always true. Also, all hits are not equal. I fondly recall doing a reaction drill against TLG in Aim Fast / Get SOM that addressed this.