Why New York Detectives Don’t Always Wear Bulletproof Vests

[Wendell]

The Police Department’s Patrol Guide dictates that detectives must wear the vest when performing enforcement duty, such as making an arrest. Other times, it is up to the detective. “If I was just going to interview somebody, and you don’t feel that there’s a threat, me personally, I wouldn’t wear it,” said Steve Panagopoulos, a former detective in Brooklyn who retired in 2015. “I don’t think the majority of detectives wear them just conducting investigations.” “After you’ve been working for a while, I won’t say you blow it off, but you say ‘It’s not going to happen to me,’” Mr. Panagopoulos said. “You just don’t wear it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/n...roof-vest.html

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I can only imagine Pat's comments here, they would be spot on not to mention entertaining.

[feudist]

I have never seen a detective wearing a vest except for arrests, and not nearly 100% then.

[HCountyGuy]

Apply that logic to carrying their sidearm. But let’s be honest, if they could get away with that they would too.

It never ceases to amaze me that folks working in a profession that continuously exposes them to the worst outcomes of negative human interactions can still walk around with such naivety. Not only that, but the continuous demonstration that many victims sure weren’t expecting to become such because “it’ll never happen to me”.

[BehindBlueI's]

When I was a major felony detective, I was required to be in a shirt and tie and to have a jacket accessible. I had a hard outer vest I would put on for warrant service or that sort of thing, but I didn't routinely wear armor.

Apply that logic to carrying their sidearm. But let’s be honest, if they could get away with that they would too.

I don't think it is quite the same thing. I didn't wear anything exposed that reminded people I was a cop. My gun, badge, cuffs, radio, all under my jacket. I would introduce myself as Det. and then never mention it again, especially for soft interviews and in the field interviews. I did not want any subconscious reminders that they were talking to a police officer, any reminder of consequences, etc. I wanted the "we're just too people having a conversation" vibe. Armor would have hampered that.

This is the same reason I was almost never on the arrest team for my own suspects. I didn't want the association with enforcement actions. Sometimes poo happens and you have to, but it's always harder to build rapport afterward unless they were a very easy confession.

[blues]

Having worked with NYC detectives, detectives in South FL and around the USA and abroad, as well my own career in plainclothes, I will say it's the norm not to wear vests outside of enforcement actions.

I wore one on SRT or, off the team, when I knew I was going to serve a warrant or perform an entry. Otherwise it rode in the trunk of the g-ride.

Most know the risks but conduct themselves this way notwithstanding.

[TC215]

None of that is unique to NYPD.

I wear my vest if we're out arresting someone, serving search warrants, or if we happen to be making traffic stops. I do not routinely wear one, and I don't wear one on surveillance.

I was on surveillance a couple years ago when a traffic stop we had a marked unit make turned into a shootout. There was zero time to put on a vest. I was very cognizant of the fact I was not wearing a vest, mainly because I was in plainclothes and I didn't want another responding officer to shoot me.

[LSP552]

When I was a major felony detective, I was required to be in a shirt and tie and to have a jacket accessible. I had a hard outer vest I would put on for warrant service or that sort of thing, but I didn't routinely wear armor.



I don't think it is quite the same thing. I didn't wear anything exposed that reminded people I was a cop. My gun, badge, cuffs, radio, all under my jacket. I would introduce myself as Det. and then never mention it again, especially for soft interviews and in the field interviews. I did not want any subconscious reminders that they were talking to a police officer, any reminder of consequences, etc. I wanted the "we're just too people having a conversation" vibe. Armor would have hampered that.

This is the same reason I was almost never on the arrest team for my own suspects. I didn't want the association with enforcement actions. Sometimes poo happens and you have to, but it's always harder to build rapport afterward unless they were a very easy confession.

^ this was my experience also and the norm with every other agency Detective I worked with.

[KevH]

When I was a major felony detective, I was required to be in a shirt and tie and to have a jacket accessible. I had a hard outer vest I would put on for warrant service or that sort of thing, but I didn't routinely wear armor.



I don't think it is quite the same thing. I didn't wear anything exposed that reminded people I was a cop. My gun, badge, cuffs, radio, all under my jacket. I would introduce myself as Det. and then never mention it again, especially for soft interviews and in the field interviews. I did not want any subconscious reminders that they were talking to a police officer, any reminder of consequences, etc. I wanted the "we're just too people having a conversation" vibe. Armor would have hampered that.

This is the same reason I was almost never on the arrest team for my own suspects. I didn't want the association with enforcement actions. Sometimes poo happens and you have to, but it's always harder to build rapport afterward unless they were a very easy confession.

Spot on. A vest in an external carrier lived in my trunk for for warrant service or in case I needed it (rare).Tactical black and bold "POLICE" don't lend themselves to building rapport.

[Hambo]

Apply that logic to carrying their sidearm. But let’s be honest, if they could get away with that they would too.

It never ceases to amaze me that folks working in a profession that continuously exposes them to the worst outcomes of negative human interactions can still walk around with such naivety. Not only that, but the continuous demonstration that many victims sure weren’t expecting to become such because “it’ll never happen to me”.

Except that a lot of officers aren't exposed to more danger than you are. People love to say that mission drives the gear train. So if your police mission is a desk job, you don't need to wear armor. If your SWAT mission for the day is to repair part of the range/shoot house, you dress for that.