I typically train to use the slide release. However, during a match, one of my cheap practice mags didn't lock the slide back- yet I was able to recognize that I needed to pull back the slide, and do so without too much trouble or loss of time.
I know, kilt on da streetz.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
The fastest way to release the slide on a P7 is to squeeze the grip because it both sends the slide forward and "cocks the hammer" in one motion. But, it only works on the P7. My desire is commonality of a method to release the slide that works 100% of the time. Albeit at an admittantly disadvantage to times.Originally Posted by HopetonBrown
I'm not arguing for commonality because it's too hard to learn two different techniques. I'm arguing for commonality because one motion (the hand over slide and pull to rear) will effectively give me double the real-world value because one rep gives me practice in both reloading and a type a malfunction clearance. I would need to train 2x longer to get the same end result if I used the slide release. My reload consists of putting the fresh mag in, tapping the bottom to ensure it's seated, and pulling the slide back to release it. It's not exactly a malfunction clearance because the slide is starting to the rear, but I do tap the bottom of the fresh magazine on a reload in the same way that I would "tap" on the first part of a malfunction clearance. So it's almost like doing a full type a clearance on each reload with one training rep and one "unit of training time."
I actually don't care how any one else decides to do it. I think the slide release is perfectly fine. Especially if you're a competitive shooter where 0.3 second matters in a reload or if you're LE/MIL where you will actually reload in combat. As a civilian, I don't see myself speed reloading in an actual encounter, mostly because I have nothing to reload with because I don't carry a spare mag most of the time. So in my limited situation, I believe it makes more sense for me to not use the slide lever and instead reach over the top to reload.
If I were teaching a new shooter, and it was a male, I would teach them the hand over the top method. If I were teaching a new shooter who is female, I'd teach both methods and let them figure out what works best for them. Some females lack the grip strength to do the slide over the top method. Some females have too small hands which requires a significant shift of the gun in their hand to access the slide stop. Maybe I've only seen that the handful of times I've worked with new female shooters because they showed up with guns that were too big for them, but it would require a substantial shift in their grip to push that lever and then a substantial shift in their grip to put the gun back into firing position.
In summary, I think both methods are fine. I won't get mad at anyone for using either of the two with a preference on the slide release for LE/MIL/competitive shooters. I never liked the pinch the slide from the back to pull it back, that always seemed wonky to me but I haven't played with it enough to see if I could make it work with an adjustment. With the pinch and pull back from rear, you're not doing a malfunction clearance that way so you lose that benefit.
Last edited by powell556; 03-11-2019 at 10:48 PM.
But isn't that one of the selling points of the P7? I sold my P7M8 a few years ago, but can you slingshot it?
I've shot a P7M8 in a class, and competed with both Glocks and 1911s. I used the squeeze crocker on the HK, my dominant thumb on the slide stop of the Glock and my support thumb on the slide stop of the 1911 l. I'm not particularly bright but it wasn't the Herculean task you make it out to be.
Not sure if I'm explaining myself right. Squeezing the grip on a P7 will release the slide. There is no slide stop lever on the P7. You *can* reach over the top and pull back on the slide to release it. It is slower to pull back on the slide to release it compared to squeezing the grip.
On a Glock, you cannot release the slide by squeezing the grip. You must either pull back the slide or hit the slide stop lever.
The only method that works for all semi-automatic guns (at least the guns I've fired) is to reach over the top and pull back on the slide. If I want to train one method that will work 100% of the time, without having to think what gun happens to be in my hand and how it works, then I will use the pull back the slide method.
If I were competing in a match where fractional seconds mattered, I would use the fastest method to release the slide, which is squeezing the grip on the P7 or using the the slide lever on a Glock. In the case of a competitive match, I'd have a few minutes to think about what I'm doing, run it dry, mentally visualize every hand movement. It would be no problem at all for me to use the squeeze to reload the P7 or the slide lever to reload the Glock.
If I am woken up in the middle of the night at 2am from a deep sleep, I want to have ingrained as my instinctual mode of operation, the thing that works 100% of the time. For my situation, I prefer to default to the slightly slower 100% fool-proof method, and in my back pocket, if I had time to prepare and visualize, and time mattered, I would use the faster method.
It's not a Herculean task to use the fastest method as long as you either only own that one gun and never shoot anything else or you have full cognitive abilities and have preparation time to get into the proper mindset. I might be dumber and less coordinated than the average bear, so I stick to the thing that always works so at 2am, that's what my body defaults to.
If you don't want to train, practice and compete to be a better, then why are you here?
I want to train and practice to better survive a life-and-death situation. There's a long list of useful things to train, a few off the top of my head:
Managing Unknown Contacts (MUC)
Situational Awareness
Violent Criminal Actor Psychology
Managing distance
Striking offence
Striking defense
Greco Roman Wrestling
BJJ
Knife work offense
Knife work defense
Physical fitness conditioning
Dealing with first responders
Interacting with law enforcement
Handgun skills
Shotgun skills
Emergency medical skills
I'll be really honest, I only have about 5 to 10 hours a week on average to dedicate to all of those things in total, and 1 to 3 times a year I take a weekend class.
At that limited amount of time I can put in (300 to 600 hours a year), I am barely treading water on the basics in each of those domains. If I had 1000+ hours a year to dedicate to training, I would probably get more proficient at using the slide lever under stress. But since I have limited training time, I'd rather use the slower hand over the top of the slide and use the extra time to work practicing MUC than slide lever release at speed. Because for my specific circumstances, I'm quadtrillions of times more likely to use MUC than I am to reload a handgun at speed in the middle of a violent encounter (given that I almost never carry a spare mag).
I review my William Aprill and Mas Ayoob class notes annually, and I feel that isn't enough. I should probably spend a few hours reviewing them quarterly. I'm so far behind on training that's more likely to be needed for my specific life and circumstances, that I'll never find the time to do the nice-to-haves like slide lever release. Could I? Absolutely, but at the expense of not training something more important to me. Training time is a zero sum game where training one thing means you are forgoing training something else and I am selective about what I choose to train to give myself the most value for my limited 300 to 600 hours a year of combined mat, ring, and range time. I've chosen to be mediocre at all of those things rather than excel at any one.
Last edited by powell556; 03-11-2019 at 11:39 PM.
Just practice your prerecorded MUC messages while commuting.
But I applaud you for your single-minded adherence to the notion that pushing a lever with your thumb is beyond your capability.
How do you train with commonality with paddle mag releases vs push buttons?
Last edited by HopetonBrown; 03-11-2019 at 11:57 PM.
I think he gives luck way too little credit
Same here. In fact, using the slide requires more thought than just hitting the slide release.
I asked about this in my first pistol class and the instructor said use whatever is more natural (paraphrasing, I don't recall the exact wording), so I have stayed a dirty slide release user.
Chris
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