1st match. AIWB Lim Minor.

[JSGlock34]

My typical monthly USPSA match has 4-5 stages. So, that’s 4-5 draws for an entire match. On the other hand, I’ll pull the trigger 20x more over the course of a match. To me the “training” benefit is getting out of the range booth and moving through a stage with a pistol in my hand, and making hard shots under competitive conditions.

[tyrusasmith]

Just a few final comments
1. Your ability to draw lightning fast and rip wicked splits is not what will carry the day. There are other technical elements involved that will affect your hit factor significantly more than stand and shoot skills. 99% of the gun classes out there never teach that stuff.

2. You can become a "known entity" real fast (much faster than you might assume) if you're open and friendly with your squad. You are highly likely to run into them again if you're shooting your local area.

3. I think you're overdramatizing what will happen

AAR required early next week

1a. I'm not hung up on AIWB for the draw, mostly for the "this is how I carry normally, and it fits within the rules" aspect. Dry fire for me isn't just about drawing and trigger control. I did a ton of different drills developed by Ben Stoeger, Tim Herron, and Steve Anderson. All in all, I'd put those 50+ hours at about 40% draw/pin run practice ( I wanted to ingrain a safe AIWB draw before going to class), 20% target transitions, 20% movement, and the other 20% into "other". That other stuff was reloads, table pickups, weird positions, etc. I sought out USPSA type dry fire drills specifically because those would help me out being a fundamentally better shooter both in the class, in USPSA later on, and in everyday life. The only thing they don't help with is cover.

1b. Pistol Shooting Solutions is a freaking great class that has alot of movement, transitions, shooting on the move and other skills. Most specifically in the man v man drills. I do also plan to take a Tim Herron, Steve Anderson, and/or Ben Stoeger class after I get a good lay of the land in USPSA.

2. I consider myself to be a friendly helpful guy, and I've already got some rapport (and seemingly left a good impression) with one of the club's board members. He gave me some great tips for targets I've never seen before. I hope your're right, but I'm prepared for the alternative based on my schedule.

3. My first match was awesome besides the harassing from the R.O. The next match isn't until April 28th. Here is the AAR from the first match if anyone cares to read it. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post862291

[Mr_White]

I’ll try to keep this as lean as possible because there are a whole lot of things that have been brought up in this thread.

First, @tyrusasmith, I’m really sorry you had that bad RO experience. From what you reported, that guy is completely and utterly wrong, particularly in threatening to shoot you (unbelievable!) I mean that in the general sense – I do believe you. I think you are taking the best possible approach in being extremely polite and cooperative and an exemplar of safety, while still doing things the way you want. I would also have complained to both the MD and DNROI if I had an RO act as you reported.

Some places don’t really know the legality of AIWB in USPSA because it doesn’t come up much. A USPSA club is required to adhere to USPSA rules though, and the BOD itself has ruled that AIWB is legal in Open, Limited, and Limited-10. It’s been quite a while now, but they made it very clear a number of years ago. I just tried, but was not able to locate the actual ruling to send to you. Sorry, I wish I could have found it. I’m sure DNROI is aware though. An RO should NOT be able to ‘deem a holster unsafe’ solely based on it being AIWB – as long as the holster is otherwise of standard safe design. By that I mean normal IWB holsters with appendix optimizations, such as the Keepers, JM, Dark Star, etc. Something nonstandard, like a trigger guard only holster for example, might be different.

I’ve been lucky that I shoot USPSA in a region where we have many current and former match/section/area directors, as well as high level ROs, so the rules were quite well known when I started here and I had no trouble. Sometimes when I go to a match further away where people don’t know me, I have to have some extra conversations with ROs, but none have gone badly over AIWB. It’s usually been related to them telling me my holster position isn’t legal because they see my Glock and think I’m shooting Production (where AIWB isn’t legal.) When they find out I’m in Limited, it’s all good. And then they see my back plate flapping and I have to explain to them about the Gadget and that my Glock is not in fact in the middle of breaking.

As others have said, the main thing they are concerned about is safety. Of the sketchy gunhandlers that show up at USPSA, most of the ones I have seen were ill-founded tactical guys with oddball gear. So you are right to simply be kind and patient with them while giving them the opportunity to see that you are very safe. The more they see that, and further, that you are a competent shooter too, I don’t think your problems will continue.

Those who have said that the draw is only a very small part of USPSA are absolutely correct. It is a perfectly valid path to just shoot gamer gear in the game and then practice separately with your carry gear. I certainly understand you and @Sauer Koch wanting to not go the game gear route. I’m not interested either. That being said, one of the things I most deeply appreciate about USPSA is their effective ‘big tent’ philosophy baked into the rules that allow us AWIB folks to compete as we carry, since in a great irony of life, IDPA is dead set against us doing so.

[Mr_White]

@cor_man257

There is a rough custom that we have in my area with regard to shooter/stage flow. This is what I’ve seen elsewhere as well, though I certainly can’t say it isn’t different somewhere else.

When your squad gets to a stage and the previous squad is all finished, someone reads the written stage briefing, then there is a 5-minute period to walk through the stage and make your plan. Your plan needs to be completed and burned into your mind by the end of this period, because it is the only dedicated time you are likely to have for that.

When you are either ROing or running the tablet/scoring, it is time to call for someone else to do it when you are 2-3 shooters away from your turn. It is improper (I’m not saying there is any official rule regarding this) for no one to be willing to take over those responsibilities, which must be shared among the squad. You then are roughly exempted from pasting and resetting the stage while you then visualize your plan over and over. If you were pasting/resetting, it’s the same thing when you are 2-3 shooters away from your turn, though you just step away from it and don’t have to call for someone to replace you.

When you are the next shooter, you are definitely exempted from pasting and resetting, and while they are scoring the shooter right before you, it is your last chance to walk through the stage. Other shooters trying to sneak walk throughs in during this time can do so, but they need to get out of your way because you have the priority as the next shooter.

After your turn shooting, you are also exempted from pasting and resetting, because you need to go refill your magazines and otherwise deal with your gear so you are ready when your next turn to shoot comes.

When you are not about to take your turn shooting, taking your turn shooting, or dealing with your gear right after taking your turn shooting, you need to be either helping paste and reset the stage, ROing, or running the tablet/scoring.

That’s how it works and it’s a good informal system. Usually you have one or a few people who are certified ROs or at least very up on the rules, and those people take the most turns running the timer and the tablet, and everyone else tends to help with pasting and resetting the stage. That’s normal and doesn’t mess anything up as long as everyone is doing something useful.

[45dotACP]

Probably the most frustrating thing about IDPA is the inability to run AIWB, because some of the rule set notwithstanding, I am actually sort of a fan of the concealed start and the lower round count stages although I'd love to see longer, more difficult shots.

Otherwise, I actually don't mind IDPA that much. I do consider it the last great stronghold of the service revolver and I'm growing more fond of wheelguns.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Alpha Sierra]

, I actually don't mind IDPA that much. I do consider it the last great stronghold of the service revolver and I'm growing more fond of wheelguns.

I thought so too but in the local IDPA matches that do their signup and squadding in Practiscore I typically see none and if I do see some, it's never more than three total.

As much as I like revolvers, and they are what I started carrying and competing with, I'm pretty much sticking with SSP and Production at least for this entire season.

[Cory]

@cor_man257

There is a rough custom that we have in my area with regard to shooter/stage flow. This is what I’ve seen elsewhere as well, though I certainly can’t say it isn’t different somewhere else.

When your squad gets to a stage and the previous squad is all finished, someone reads the written stage briefing, then there is a 5-minute period to walk through the stage and make your plan. Your plan needs to be completed and burned into your mind by the end of this period, because it is the only dedicated time you are likely to have for that.

When you are either ROing or running the tablet/scoring, it is time to call for someone else to do it when you are 2-3 shooters away from your turn. It is improper (I’m not saying there is any official rule regarding this) for no one to be willing to take over those responsibilities, which must be shared among the squad. You then are roughly exempted from pasting and resetting the stage while you then visualize your plan over and over. If you were pasting/resetting, it’s the same thing when you are 2-3 shooters away from your turn, though you just step away from it and don’t have to call for someone to replace you.

When you are the next shooter, you are definitely exempted from pasting and resetting, and while they are scoring the shooter right before you, it is your last chance to walk through the stage. Other shooters trying to sneak walk throughs in during this time can do so, but they need to get out of your way because you have the priority as the next shooter.

After your turn shooting, you are also exempted from pasting and resetting, because you need to go refill your magazines and otherwise deal with your gear so you are ready when your next turn to shoot comes.

When you are not about to take your turn shooting, taking your turn shooting, or dealing with your gear right after taking your turn shooting, you need to be either helping paste and reset the stage, ROing, or running the tablet/scoring.

That’s how it works and it’s a good informal system. Usually you have one or a few people who are certified ROs or at least very up on the rules, and those people take the most turns running the timer and the tablet, and everyone else tends to help with pasting and resetting the stage. That’s normal and doesn’t mess anything up as long as everyone is doing something useful.

I appreciate this alot.

Seems sort of similar to how my 3 matches so far have gone. The major difference being there is no real walk through. It's more of a there are the targets okay lets shoot. Perhaps it only feels that way because I'm such a novice at planning a stage.

I would highly agree that it's improper for no one to be willing to take over when someone is on deck. I think me being asked to score immediately has a lot to do with the concealment thing. On the first stage everyone assumes I'm just an observer not a shooter and thus might as well score.

I've also noticed that without fail you'll have 3 shooters who paste, shoot, load mags, and paste again while the others gab.

I'll keep picking up on the etiquette as I go, but it seems to boil down to don't be a jerk to othera and help out. Like any group of people some don't do great at following norms.

-Cory

[Mr_White]

I appreciate this alot.

Seems sort of similar to how my 3 matches so far have gone. The major difference being there is no real walk through. It's more of a there are the targets okay lets shoot. Perhaps it only feels that way because I'm such a novice at planning a stage.

I would highly agree that it's improper for no one to be willing to take over when someone is on deck. I think me being asked to score immediately has a lot to do with the concealment thing. On the first stage everyone assumes I'm just an observer not a shooter and thus might as well score.

I've also noticed that without fail you'll have 3 shooters who paste, shoot, load mags, and paste again while the others gab.

I'll keep picking up on the etiquette as I go, but it seems to boil down to don't be a jerk to othera and help out. Like any group of people some don't do great at following norms.

-Cory

The part about reading the written stage briefing to the squad, followed by a 5-minute walk-through period is actually a rule, so that should definitely happen at least. I've heard about some places/clubs that have problems with people not helping tape sometimes. It's pretty uncommon here, but generally if we are short of tapers, I yell out in command voice "NEED MOAR TAPERS" without even looking back at anyone - a few more people always materialize. Sometimes folks are just engrossed in conversation and didn't pay enough attention to notice that there weren't enough others doing it.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

The part about reading the written stage briefing to the squad, followed by a 5-minute walk-through period is actually a rule, so that should definitely happen at least. I've heard about some places/clubs that have problems with people not helping tape sometimes. It's pretty uncommon here, but generally if we are short of tapers, I yell out in command voice "NEED MOAR TAPERS" without even looking back at anyone - a few more people always materialize. Sometimes folks are just engrossed in conversation and didn't pay enough attention to notice that there weren't enough others doing it.

As always Gabe’s throwing down much wisdom here & as a long time 2ndry RO running the tablet, that command voice "NEED MOAR TAPERS" has been spoken/growled more Xs than I care to remember.

[olstyn]

Sometimes folks are just engrossed in conversation and didn't pay enough attention to notice that there weren't enough others doing it.

I think it would be difficult to find someone who has not been guilty of that at least occasionally, especially on low round count stages with big squads where there just isn't room for everyone to help with pasting & resetting.