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Thread: Probationary officers fired

  1. #21
    They should have been fired...I have no problems with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    There is no courage or bravery without fear. If there is nothing to overcome then it cannot be measured.

    The bravest souls, imho, are those who rise to the occasion, fully cognizant of the risk, their fear and potential inadequacy, but who answer the call in spite of it.

    No generation has a monopoly on such individuals. They are the stuff of legends. We would be woefully diminished without them to guide us.

    ^^^This!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    Despite my age and forced-to-retire status, I wonder if SOME of this might be as much a training issue as a selection issue. If you don't know what to do, you may default to previous experience and training. For many people, running from danger, especially incoming gunfire, is the default (and, if you're not a police, correct) response.

    In a world where cops are trained that not killing or injuring an assailant is a priority and that de-escalation is the much preferred objective, I wonder if these officers were doing what they believed the department wanted them to do. Students of military history may realize that once someone flees in panic, it encourages a mass retreat. I wonder that if once the first rookie ran, it seemed the best decision by the second. I also wonder if one or both might have considered their actions the right thing to do based on what they were taught.

    I do not want to suggest that cowardice is at all acceptable, but this might be an example of officers responding to training. Guardian versus warrior, doncha know?
    I think this is BOTH a selection and training problem, but only from our point of view. This outcome is a feature, not a bug, of the new view of policing being forced on us by outside political interests. The INTENDED outcome. No politician or LE administrators will be held accountable for increases in crime or victimization of their population. However, there is HELL to pay if a member of a protected class is on the receiving end of police use of force. Dead cops or citizens is a small and acceptable price to pay for them. Harsh I know, but that is the truth.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I think this is BOTH a selection and training problem, but only from our point of view. This outcome is a feature, not a bug, of the new view of policing being forced on us by outside political interests. The INTENDED outcome. No politician or LE administrators will be held accountable for increases in crime or victimization of their population. However, there is HELL to pay if a member of a protected class is on the receiving end of police use of force. Dead cops or citizens is a small and acceptable price to pay for them. Harsh I know, but that is the truth.
    I cannot agree more enthusiastically. And, I always enjoy sardonic cynicism with a Single Malt.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    There is no courage or bravery without fear. If there is nothing to overcome then it cannot be measured.

    The bravest souls, imho, are those who rise to the occasion, fully cognizant of the risk, their fear and potential inadequacy, but who answer the call in spite of it.

    No generation has a monopoly on such individuals. They are the stuff of legends. We would be woefully diminished without them to guide us.
    Excellent words to live by old friend...

  5. #25
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Blue Ridge Mtns
    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. Magnum View Post
    Excellent words to live by old friend...
    And thank you for taking the time to say so.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  6. #26
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    Feb 2012
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    Madison, Wisconsin

    not everybody can do this job

    There have always been people in law enforcement who were not really suited for the job.

    Unfortunately, some of those people endure and get promoted because they have administrative skills or because somebody perceived they have administrative skills. Or because they are a member of a protected group.

    Those people eventually rise in the ranks. They don’t make good leaders and they often don’t make good decisions on who to hire, retain, or promote.

    This was happening nearly forty years ago when I started and it’s happening now.

    (I retired in 2011 and then went back to work at my old agency as an LTE in both patrol and dispatch. A couple of weeks ago they did the previously unthinkable -- they demoted a Sergeant of patrol and a Corporal of communications and fired two probationary patrol officers who had bad attitudes and just weren't going to make it. Such things had NEVER before happened -- it was the department tradition to retain the poor performers and try to "fix" them and then burden the rest of us with whiners of poor performance for the next twenty five years. I'm not sure who made these decisions, the Chief or the Executive Captain, but they were the right decisions to make)

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Wendell View Post
    Years ago there was a video of an armored-up entry team about to enter a storefront in a stripmall. As they entered, shots rang out and most of the team immediately abandoned ship. One guy was left behind, alone, so he stood up straight, returned fire, and entered the storefront and finished it - all by himself.

    I can't find that video. Anybody know the one I mean?
    I'd like to hear or read more about this one.
    #RESIST

  8. #28
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    Aug 2011
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    Western Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Wendell View Post
    Years ago there was a video of an armored-up entry team about to enter a storefront in a stripmall. As they entered, shots rang out and most of the team immediately abandoned ship. One guy was left behind, alone, so he stood up straight, returned fire, and entered the storefront and finished it - all by himself.
    In the US?

  9. #29
    Wendell,

    You almost described an event that happened in France not too long ago, and which received quite a bit of international viewing...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl9Ag2o6KBw
    Jules
    Runcible Works

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    I'd like to hear or read more about this one.
    I think this might be the one he is referring to;

    Man Who Reportedly Took Bank Manager Hostage Was Carrying Pipe Bombs


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