I need an intervention: looking at a P320

[Texaspoff]

I've got a new Pro Carry and I'm wringing it out. Gone back to Exeter once already for an out of spec piece that I was initially told was "perfectly OK." This does not inspire confidence in the brand, its QC, or its CS.

And, yes, there is some deep seated anti-Sig and anti-P320 feelings on this board, which, frankly, I think are deserved. I'll remind everyone that about 7 years ago, at the height of the Gen4 GLOCK fiasco, there was just as much hate and vitriol pointed at the "G" as there is now at Sig - so any fanbois need not get their collective tits in a wringer.

Lastly, just as a point for consideration, Sig is selling M17s and M18s - with NIGHT SIGHTS, multiple magazines, holsters, mag carriers, etc, for COMFORTABLY under $200 per unit to the DOD. Given the number of widgets in the action, and the complexity of assembling same, is it any surprise that the business model seems to be "slap them together and get them out the door?"

You can do that on a GLOCK, which has fewer total parts than are contained in the P320's FCU alone, and still run into tolerance stacking issues...

This is the main issue I have with Sig currently. I won't buy a Sig unless in person, simply because I don't trust their QC and want to give it the once over. It's s shame, but I also had this issue with Glock in the past. I had 2 G19, that had barrel crowns cut off horribly. So for a while, I wouldn't buy a glock sight unseen.

It's doesn't deter me from purchasing, but doesn't instill confidence in their abilities.



TXPO

[JonInWA]

I've got a new Pro Carry and I'm wringing it out. Gone back to Exeter once already for an out of spec piece that I was initially told was "perfectly OK." This does not inspire confidence in the brand, its QC, or its CS.

And, yes, there is some deep seated anti-Sig and anti-P320 feelings on this board, which, frankly, I think are deserved. I'll remind everyone that about 7 years ago, at the height of the Gen4 GLOCK fiasco, there was just as much hate and vitriol pointed at the "G" as there is now at Sig - so any fanbois need not get their collective tits in a wringer.

Lastly, just as a point for consideration, Sig is selling M17s and M18s - with NIGHT SIGHTS, multiple magazines, holsters, mag carriers, etc, for COMFORTABLY under $200 per unit to the DOD. Given the number of widgets in the action, and the complexity of assembling same, is it any surprise that the business model seems to be "slap them together and get them out the door?"

You can do that on a GLOCK, which has fewer total parts than are contained in the P320's FCU alone, and still run into tolerance stacking issues...

SIG discerned a way to win the DoD M17 and M18 contracts, and not by pocket change separating them from the other contenders; their submission pricing was SIGNIFICANTLY lower, as they benefited from their contract interpretation as to exactly what specifically needed to be bid. I fault DoD rather than SIG for this, and I fault DoD for not completing the M17 testing protocol.

That said, my assumption is that SIG made the determination that they could provide a quality weapon within contract specs for the amount that they bid, if their bid was accepted. That business model needs to reflect their provision of an adequately built and assembled pistol to the military.

I am appalled by the entire mess. And that's both as a pistol aficionado and as a former field grade Army officer. Lives depend on these things, they're not just good luck charms or tokens of office for display.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

I've got a new Pro Carry and I'm wringing it out. Gone back to Exeter once already for an out of spec piece that I was initially told was "perfectly OK." This does not inspire confidence in the brand, its QC, or its CS.

And, yes, there is some deep seated anti-Sig and anti-P320 feelings on this board, which, frankly, I think are deserved. I'll remind everyone that about 7 years ago, at the height of the Gen4 GLOCK fiasco, there was just as much hate and vitriol pointed at the "G" as there is now at Sig - so any fanbois need not get their collective tits in a wringer.

Lastly, just as a point for consideration, Sig is selling M17s and M18s - with NIGHT SIGHTS, multiple magazines, holsters, mag carriers, etc, for COMFORTABLY under $200 per unit to the DOD. Given the number of widgets in the action, and the complexity of assembling same, is it any surprise that the business model seems to be "slap them together and get them out the door?"

You can do that on a GLOCK, which has fewer total parts than are contained in the P320's FCU alone, and still run into tolerance stacking issues...

Let's see....Said company knows that there's an inherent, dangerous flaw that arises during M17 contract submission process; said company corrects flaw for military contract pieces, but continues to knowingly field flawed pistols for LEO and commercial market stream....multiple individuals injured by flawed product before said company reluctantly takes steps to correct...said company has a history of significantly reducing inherent component quality to platforms throughout production cycles...

Look, at one point, in the mid-1990s to 2006, I was a major SIG-Sauer user, owning a large portion of their product line. Clearly things have changed. Marketing has trumped inherent quality, quality control and design. My SIG collection has been reduced to 1, a Second-Generation GSR, bought fortuitously (with no brilliant planning or insights on my part) when inherent component quality and assembly skills reached an apex. Today, the only SIG product I would personally purchase or recommend is the P2022. And that's survived unmolested presumably because of explicit contract specifications. Perhaps DoD should consult the French on how to systemically prepare, enforce and service contracts....Ironically, the DoD process put in place for the M9/M10 worked well with the M9 and M10 contracts...

My antipathy towards the SIG of today has been singularly earned by SIG, each and every misstep at a time.

Best, Jon

[TexasSiegfried]

This is an interesting thread. OP asked for an intervention and, it seems, that s largely what they have received.

I currently carry an SP2022, but began with the P320, and still have 4 of them. They never gave me any trouble, and i only switched to the SP2022 because of the threads here about the advantages of DA S.A. systems.

I share the disgust with Sig as a managed company, but the band wagon and pile on in this thread makes me consider pulling out my 320s just to be a contrarian.

Still, I am glad to read these different perspectives, and it is always intriguing to observe anew how we humans place human attributes and personalities into inanimate objects.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[sharps54]

Local fun store has M17’s marked down and they’re eligible for a $50 rebate. There’s a chance we’ll get them before I retire. Can’t decide if it’s worth taking a chance on or not.

The turmoil that not Glock guys go through.

@GreggW I’m very happy with the M11-A1 I traded you for, in fact I shot it at TacCon althoughy match score shouldn’t count against the pistol!

You can get Lipsey’s M17s for $509 (mine was 525 to my dealer after cc fee and shipping insurance) from KY Gun Co, with the rebate / 2x21 rd mag promo I couldn’t resist getting one to try.

[Gadfly]

I have one commercial variant 320 compact I bought used. Immediately sent it back to sig for the upgrade. Got it back and have @400 rounds of gold dot 124gr +p through it. One fail to feed so far, but that could be me or the gen 1 mags.

About to dive in and purchase out newly approved P320 x carry. The pistol HAS to be purchased from a specific vendor and HAS to have a specific serial number prefix to be carried as a duty pistol. That tells me commercial pistols are still suspect, but probably because they are afraid of older (non upgraded) fire control units getting into the system.

HSI bought 8,000 X Carry pistols last October, and we are still waiting on delivery to field them. But, we can buy a personally owned "copy" of the issued gun to carry on duty. Its my understanding that the internals have a different coating than the commercial gun. I noticed one posted in this thread mention rusting issues on mag catches. I guess we found that in testing too if we requested different coatings. Our internals are supposed to closely mimic the M17, but not exactly.

So far, the few personal purchased sigs have run fine on our range, no malfunctions seen. I will buy one, even if I don't give up my Glock and put the 320 into service as my duty gun.

I think these will mature into a quality product over time, just like Glock did. I think the whole "modularity" fire control thing is the wave of the future. Glock and M&P will probably have a similar offering in the next 5 years.

Side Note:
we got about 6 new p365s in the office this month. I really want these to work out, because they seem like great little guns. I was ringing the steel with one at 75 yards consistently. At 100 yards, I was only hitting about half the time. But for a tiny gun with a DAO like trigger, I was impressed. I just hope they figured out the FP breakage issue.

[Archer1440]

Side Note:
we got about 6 new p365s in the office this month. I really want these to work out, because they seem like great little guns. I was ringing the steel with one at 75 yards consistently. At 100 yards, I was only hitting about half the time. But for a tiny gun with a DAO like trigger, I was impressed. I just hope they figured out the FP breakage issue.

I think concerns about striker breakage on P365 pistols produced after November 2018 have been based on echoes of issues with early production, because all indications seem to be that the issue has been completely solved.

There's no hint of issues with strikers on late 2018 production pistols on any reputable forums.

That's far from "data" but it seems this issue is not particularly relevant in discussions taking place in the past few months.

I personally have thousands of rounds through two of these which were produced in early December 2018, without so much as a single misfeed. Again, far from "data" but my personal experience is, these specific examples of mine are good to go for EDC.