I think either .380s are a curse to me, or I am a curse to them. 2 P232s, EZ Shield, 2 Glock 42s have all exhibited problems in my hands. Yet two LCP Gen1s have worked flawlessly less, even when dirty. The crazy thing is I even shoot the tiny LCP pretty well.
Last edited by TheNewbie; 03-06-2019 at 06:21 PM.
Never seen a 1910 in the flesh. But I think the grip safety is actually a pretty cool idea. If it was reliable... shit, why not? I always thought the Mauser HSc was cool, too. But I haven't heard much to suggest that gun was particularly durable or reliable.
I will say my 1974 PPK/S .380 has gone over 100 rounds at one time, with zero problems. And it's incredibly accurate. It does not, however, work with any magazine except the one that came with the gun (they drop out the bottom). I've tried new Mec-Gar mags, old German mags... they all fall the F out. Except the original one.
Fixed barrel guns have some advantages (size, inherent accuracy, inherently low bore axis, DA/SA)... just not sure a PPK or P230 is going to be the workhorse that a P239 or a 3913 is (Caveat: I say "workhorse"--I'm not a cop, I'm not military, but I suppose I hold those standards to my firearms). And I feel like a Beretta Cheetah or a CZ-83 sacrifices the form-factor advantages. Though I'll say I'd like to have a Cheetah, at some point.
But, then again, there's the Makarov PM. Never really heard anything bad about it. Maybe it's the ultimate blowback?
Last edited by MattyD380; 03-06-2019 at 06:59 PM.
I have a P232SL that my wife bought for me purely because I think it's a beautiful piece of machining, and couldn't justify buying it for that reason alone.
Unfortunately there was a burr on the trigger that took a couple hundred rounds to get it sorted out. The trigger would stick to the rear sometimes....but after putting some rounds through it, the problem hasn't reoccured.
I could see myself carrying something like it back in the day as an off-duty or backup, but today I think it's better left as eye-candy. The recoil of the blowback isn't terribly good, and an imperfect grip is met with some fierce slide bite. With that said....if it's all I had handy, I wouldn't sweat taking it out to carry.
The original HSc was reliable and durable...….at least mine was.Originally Posted by MattyD380
The later Interarms copies in 380 are a different story.
The Mauser 1914 and 1934 were much nicer pistols, though....simply as a product of their times, really.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
That was done by terrorist Gavrilo Princep with the 1910's predecessor, the FN/Browning 1900 (which actually had fairly large sights, especially by the period standards, and much larger than the sights on the 1910's.
Of course the 1910 was more oriented towards being a pocket/concealed pistol, and the 1900 I believe was marketed both as a holstered duty/police pistol and as a commercial defensive pistol (ugly but flat/concealable).
Best, Jon
Last edited by JonInWA; 03-06-2019 at 07:45 PM.
A ton of Google results come up with it as a 1910.
https://warisboring.com/the-gun-that...d-world-war-i/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip#Weapon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1910#Incidents
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Back on topic:
The Berettas are off the list for me, as beautiful as they are. The safety has a halfway position where you move the lever in the direction of on safe and it clicks with a detent feel, but isn't on safe and will still discharge if the trigger is pressed. IMO, it's not suitable for being kept in any location that it might get used for serious purposes, and is borderline for even having in one's possession. I had one of the later ones that was supposed to be better in this regard, and it was exactly as I described. I no longer own it.
The Bersas are not nicely made, in my experience. The Sigs are pretty spendy for what they are. The company has made better .380s.
I can't figure out what the PP platform offers in 2019 as a practical tool that a G42 doesn't. That said, I could get interested in a Manurhin PP as a useless but cool expensive thing to sit in the safe alongside a 1910. But hopefully that never happens.
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Not another dime.
I had a P230 as a backup many years ago. It was accurate but hit a foot high at 25 yards. It wasn’t me, since about every other LSP firearms instructor shot the gun. SIG basically said, sorry, it’s a close range gun and nothing we can do. I wasn’t happy with SIG’s response and sold the gun for a loss. This was back probably around 1987- 1990 time frame.
The 232 was reliable, just had an unacceptable POA/POI issue with every round I tried. Atone point they were fairly popular backup and off duty guns for LSP. Many of them shot high, but I don’t remember any real reliability problems. Depending on hand size, they could bite. They are a blowback action so they have a bit of recoil.
I’ve actually been pondering trying to pick up a P232....because reasons.
I had worse luck with SIG customer service back then than in more recent years, but don’t want to derail the thread.
Last edited by LSP552; 03-06-2019 at 09:16 PM.
I'd say DA/SA (for those who want that) is the main benefit, over a Glock. Can't say I've shot a G42... but I can say I can't shoot a G19 worth a damn. I'm guessing my predilection for hammer fired guns would translate to .380s. Strangely, though, I found the G30 to be a tack driver. That's worth another thread, I guess, at some point.
But I admit, my particular PPK isn't exactly practical--since there's only one magazine in the universe it can use. But if my PPK or P230 could hang with a G42 in terms of everyday reliability... I'd opt for the DA/SA setup.
Interesting take on the Cheetahs. I've never handled one, nor messed with the safety. The later ones decock... seems like that issue is only applicable if you're carrying C&L?
The G42 is very easy to hit with, and is the softest shooting .380 I’ve ever shot.
I have a P230 (West German manufactured). I’ve not had any reliability issues with it, but for me, and my size hands, the 230, the Glock 42 and the LCP are right at the bottom end of size/interface usability for me. Great for concealment, but I have to be very wary of where my thumbs are pointing to keep from getting flamed/sooty.
If there was one favorable attribute about the .380’s I had to pick among all of the common carry/concealment pieces, I would say the thickness of the guns is very helpful and useful. Especially she you’re accustomed to carrying a Glock/double stack-9 thickness gun. It feels like you’ve got a carpenter’s square stuck in your waistband.
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I think the 239 put the 232 out of business. Looks like something put the 239 out of business recently because I don't see them listed on the Sig website.
I've always like the looks of the 230/232 but the size is really a detriment being a 380. 239 has the same controls as larger Sigs and is far easier to operate.
The 230/232 will become a classic just like the HK-4. I had one of those and it was a fine 380. Just never been a fan of 380's.
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