Red Dots, "way of the dinosaur"

[Wake27]

When I first saw Kyle's video I immediately told myself I was going to convert all my rifles to LPVO.

But then I started thinking about what I ACTUALLY do with my rifle and realized that a LPVO really won't solve all the world's problems for me. I use a SBR for clearing residential and commercial structures and in a team environment. A quality red dot really is the best overall option for me currently. However I am realizing more and more how useful a tall (1.93") mount would work for me.

I am going to Kyle's 2 day carbine in May. I would really like to be able to bring a rifle with a LPVO to experiment and learn with. I'm not sure I'll be able to swing it financially though.

The Steiner P4Xi is a good starting point to try the LPVO thing out without breaking the bank.


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[JHC]

When I first saw Kyle's video I immediately told myself I was going to convert all my rifles to LPVO.

But then I started thinking about what I ACTUALLY do with my rifle and realized that a LPVO really won't solve all the world's problems for me. I use a SBR for clearing residential and commercial structures and in a team environment. A quality red dot really is the best overall option for me currently. However I am realizing more and more how useful a tall (1.93") mount would work for me.

I am going to Kyle's 2 day carbine in May. I would really like to be able to bring a rifle with a LPVO to experiment and learn with. I'm not sure I'll be able to swing it financially though.

And that makes perfect sense. You are a working pro. OTOH for a lot of non pro's, with an LPVO they don't really have to sacrifice much if anything on the short end of the scale but have a rig that would work for pretty much any self defense plus games, plus hunting. Or it they feared someone calling that LPVO rig a sign of Walter Mitty they could drop a couple grand on a separate SBR for the house.

[breakingtime91]

And that makes perfect sense. You are a working pro. OTOH for a lot of non pro's, with an LPVO they don't really have to sacrifice much if anything on the short end of the scale but have a rig that would work for pretty much any self defense plus games, plus hunting. Or it they feared someone calling that LPVO rig a sign of Walter Mitty they could drop a couple grand on a separate SBR for the house.

Just had that conversation with someone. If they have one carbine, there is a lot that can be done with a LPVO equipped carbine. I feel dirty as two days ago, I shot an "new and updated" eotech for the same time and was smoking my times with my comp m5 on the same drills.. That window and reticle makes the aimpoint feel like looking through a toilet paper roll and fishing for a dot.


Now if they would just fix the damn battery life and I wasn't a dumb grunt who isn't sure if I can manage the red dot on and off hah.

[TiroFijo]

For a 5.56 carbine (14.5" to 16"), how does the Kahles K16i 1-6x24 compare to the Nightforce NX8 1-8X24 F1?
They are both the same weight, the Kahles is longer but apparently has a more forgiving eye box?

The ATACR 1-8X24 F1 seems BIG.

[breakingtime91]

I found a recent podcast with Jocko really interesting. The gentleman he hosted was one of the first seal teams to field the Scar in Afghanistan. He talks about if it was windy and the Taliban knew they were 400-500 yards out they could basically get away with walking around at that distance because the 5.56 got pushed around so easily. He then talks about why they loved the Scar in 7.62 as they were making hits easily at those distances and out to 800. I think people get wrapped up in what is theoretically possible and what guys in the field experience. This isn't to say that Defoor doesn't have that experience, he does whole sale. There is also a video of him, I will see if I can find it, where he describes 5.56 guns, even with 77 grain, as a 300 yard and in gun for realistic combat. I am also pretty vocal about SBR 5.56 guns having there place, and thats for about 100 yards and in.

Just food for thought..

[JHC]

I found a recent podcast with Jocko really interesting. The gentleman he hosted was one of the first seal teams to field the Scar in Afghanistan. He talks about if it was windy and the Taliban knew they were 400-500 yards out they could basically get away with walking around at that distance because the 5.56 got pushed around so easily. He then talks about why they loved the Scar in 7.62 as they were making hits easily at those distances and out to 800. I think people get wrapped up in what is theoretically possible and what guys in the field experience. This isn't to say that Defoor doesn't have that experience, he does whole sale. There is also a video of him, I will see if I can find it, where he describes 5.56 guns, even with 77 grain, as a 300 yard and in gun for realistic combat. I am also pretty vocal about SBR 5.56 guns having there place, and thats for about 100 yards and in.

Just food for thought..

IDK I have very limited experience out there far but in my maiden attempt I locked in using M193 with a TA01's BDC on a 600 yard range with a stout crosswind I got good hits repeatedly. Depends how windy I guess.

[Wake27]

I found a recent podcast with Jocko really interesting. The gentleman he hosted was one of the first seal teams to field the Scar in Afghanistan. He talks about if it was windy and the Taliban knew they were 400-500 yards out they could basically get away with walking around at that distance because the 5.56 got pushed around so easily. He then talks about why they loved the Scar in 7.62 as they were making hits easily at those distances and out to 800. I think people get wrapped up in what is theoretically possible and what guys in the field experience. This isn't to say that Defoor doesn't have that experience, he does whole sale. There is also a video of him, I will see if I can find it, where he describes 5.56 guns, even with 77 grain, as a 300 yard and in gun for realistic combat. I am also pretty vocal about SBR 5.56 guns having there place, and thats for about 100 yards and in.

Just food for thought..

That seems weird considering all of the other weapons we have that aren’t 5.56. I’d expect that even before the SCAR, SEALs wouldn’t roll out without at least a MK12 and 60/240/M2.


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[Casual Friday]

Just had that conversation with someone. If they have one carbine, there is a lot that can be done with a LPVO equipped carbine. I feel dirty as two days ago, I shot an "new and updated" eotech for the same time and was smoking my times with my comp m5 on the same drills.. That window and reticle makes the aimpoint feel like looking through a toilet paper roll and fishing for a dot.


Now if they would just fix the damn battery life and I wasn't a dumb grunt who isn't sure if I can manage the red dot on and off hah.

An Aimpoint micro with a Eotech reticle would be the cat's pajamas. If they ever make one, I'll buy 6. Holosun makes one but I'm looking for Aimpoint track record.

[ASH556]

For a 5.56 carbine (14.5" to 16"), how does the Kahles K16i 1-6x24 compare to the Nightforce NX8 1-8X24 F1?
They are both the same weight, the Kahles is longer but apparently has a more forgiving eye box?

The ATACR 1-8X24 F1 seems BIG.

One of the great points about the NX8 is its size. It's basically the same size as their 1-4, which was even relatively small in the 1-4 market.

The Kahles does have a more forgiving eyebox, and clearer glass. It's daylight bright, but SFP and with a much larger/busier reticle.

Kahles is a great scope, but the 1-8 offers more overall capability. Just like, my opinion, man.

[JHC]

One of the great points about the NX8 is its size. It's basically the same size as their 1-4, which was even relatively small in the 1-4 market.

The Kahles does have a more forgiving eyebox, and clearer glass. It's daylight bright, but SFP and with a much larger/busier reticle.

Kahles is a great scope, but the 1-8 offers more overall capability. Just like, my opinion, man.

For this rifle neophyte a forgiving eyebox is like priority 1 through 3. I'd have to really need distance to trade up from an awesome eyebox 1-4 for a 6X or 8X.


How do the best of breed compare in that area as the upper magnification climbs?