Why carbine for civilian defense?

[Sanch]

Weird post idea, looking to generate conversation to help me make sense of things mostly as I advise family and friends. The consensus around home defense is a long gun is better than a pistol. Easy enough argument to make, because easier to attach a light, easier to shoot, better stopping power or whatever word is most appropriate since you all know what I mean even though that word is controversial.

Tom givens and DB like shotguns for civilian home defense and I like their take. I have both a carbine and a shotgun but my shotgun is go to for me if the need arises. So really the question in my mind is, do I need both a shotgun and a carbine? I want both. And that’s good enough reason for me, but thinkin about for an average person I might advise.

I might have to pare down my possessions either to sell or put in deep storage so trying to make sense of things because if I did have unlimited money and unlimited storage space I’d own hundreds of guns just cuz!

Here’s where I’m at right now with my thinking. The shotgun is my primary home defense gun. The carbine is my oh poop home defense gun or boogaloo gun as some internet people call it. The idea in my head is the shotgun is for day to day and the carbine comes out if tshtf. If someone from the mafia or cartel wants to murder me, then maybe the carbine stays by my bed instead of shotgun. Threat modeling is the word I read on a blog.

Does that make sense? But if I really wanted or needed to pare down, maybe I ditch the shotgun first because the carbine should work just fine for home defense in an average situation but also works in a bugaloo so maybe paring down to just the carbine and a Glock for carry is the ticket?

Maybe the question isn’t why do I need a carbine because the answe is always yes, but the question is —do I supplement the carbine with a shotgun for “routine” home security tasks? And then if either I am parking down, I sell or put the shotgun in storage, and If I’m recommending someone get their first and probably only long gun, I suggest the carbine over shotgun even though I like shotgun too if I could only have one it would be carbine?

A bit of a rant sorry trying to flesh out my thoughts. I live in a small home and become a hoarder with ammo, spare mags, spare parts, tactical gear, stored water, stored food, bug out bag, etc and this is all preparedness stuff for me, I don’t compete recreationally so this stuff guns included are taking up space to protect against a hypothetical future and maybe putting half of it in secure storage or selling some off might make me happier.

[Darth_Uno]

Just another tool in the toolbox. No reason not to have either.

I'll tell you this though, if I'm going up against an unknown number of threats (i.e. my back door gets bashed in) I'm going with the carbine for the sheer amount of rounds on board.

[Suvorov]

Every tool has its purpose.

I'm not sure I'm even worthy to speak on a subject that Givens and DB have already weighed in on but here is my take on why the carbine may be better for HD than the boom stick.

- It is easier to find good training these days on the carbine than it is the shotgun for most people. While 99%+ of people buying a long gun for home defense won't seek any training the 1% who do will find carbine classes everywhere but only a few quality shotgun classes are available to my knowledge.

- A 55 - 75 grain supersonic bullet is going to travel through a lot less drywall than will 9 .30 caliber pellets in the event the defender misses their target.

- A small or recoil adverse shooter (my wife) can handle a carbine fairly well while at the same time is terrified by the mighty boomstick.

- For those who work on the land, the carbine is generally a better anti animal predator gun than a shotgun is where shots may need to be taken at 50 yards plus. I realize this won't apply for 99% of home defense situations but if you are going to have only one long gun handy, then the carbine would be a better choice in this case.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm no tactical guru but I have an empirical mind. It's nice to talk about this or that but one should test it out. I've taken lots of handgun classes, a couple of shotgun classes (one from Tom Givens) and a carbine class. I've shot the handguns and carbines pretty extensively in competition and the shotgun once in awhile.

People always talk equipment. Let me ask a question - have you trained with and/or competed with a chosen handgun, shotgun or carbine/rifle in anything approximating how you would use it in a home self-defense or other reasonable SD situation. That's the empirical test for you as compared to the usual what round, what flashlight, blah, blah, blah discussion.

I know it may be difficult and expensive to do such but that's the real solution. A pretty well known quote from John Holschen of Insights Training:

InSights Training Center
May 24, 2013 ·
A thought for today from John Holschen:
Amateurs think (or talk) equipment,
Students think techniques,
Masters think tactics!

So I've done as much as I could reasonably for the equipment and tactics training along with competition. After this, I've decided that if I am setting up a primary long arm for home SD, it's the carbine. Shooting 20 rounds of 12 gauge in a stage (with the reloads) vs. 30 of 223 - guess which is easier on me. The stopping difference is not that important as my ability to use the carbine more easily - esp. in my older years. Yeah, it might be one guy and one slug stops him dead but if it's more - no contest. Bottom line, run both guns in something semi-realistic (hahaha) and see what works. Chatting about it is like chatting about sex, useful but not ...

[deflave]

Weird post idea, looking to generate conversation to help me make sense of things mostly as I advise family and friends. The consensus around home defense is a long gun is better than a pistol. Easy enough argument to make, because easier to attach a light, easier to shoot, better stopping power or whatever word is most appropriate since you all know what I mean even though that word is controversial.

Tom givens and DB like shotguns for civilian home defense and I like their take. I have both a carbine and a shotgun but my shotgun is go to for me if the need arises. So really the question in my mind is, do I need both a shotgun and a carbine? I want both. And that’s good enough reason for me, but thinkin about for an average person I might advise.

I might have to pare down my possessions either to sell or put in deep storage so trying to make sense of things because if I did have unlimited money and unlimited storage space I’d own hundreds of guns just cuz!

Here’s where I’m at right now with my thinking. The shotgun is my primary home defense gun. The carbine is my oh poop home defense gun or boogaloo gun as some internet people call it. The idea in my head is the shotgun is for day to day and the carbine comes out if tshtf. If someone from the mafia or cartel wants to murder me, then maybe the carbine stays by my bed instead of shotgun. Threat modeling is the word I read on a blog.

Does that make sense? But if I really wanted or needed to pare down, maybe I ditch the shotgun first because the carbine should work just fine for home defense in an average situation but also works in a bugaloo so maybe paring down to just the carbine and a Glock for carry is the ticket?

Maybe the question isn’t why do I need a carbine because the answe is always yes, but the question is —do I supplement the carbine with a shotgun for “routine” home security tasks? And then if either I am parking down, I sell or put the shotgun in storage, and If I’m recommending someone get their first and probably only long gun, I suggest the carbine over shotgun even though I like shotgun too if I could only have one it would be carbine?

A bit of a rant sorry trying to flesh out my thoughts. I live in a small home and become a hoarder with ammo, spare mags, spare parts, tactical gear, stored water, stored food, bug out bag, etc and this is all preparedness stuff for me, I don’t compete recreationally so this stuff guns included are taking up space to protect against a hypothetical future and maybe putting half of it in secure storage or selling some off might make me happier.

This is a great question.

I'm looking forward to the replies from people that know more than myself.

[Doublestack45]

I’m in a similar position, but have hung onto a perfectly set up 870 Police even though I prefer a rifles capacity for HD. My reasoning has more to do with the possibility of future bans on the rifles. The shotgun won’t suffer from a future AWB.
I know my 870 runs, and the loss I’d take selling it just isn’t worth it to me.
If money is that tight, maybe just sell the carbine upper and stash the lower for a later time.

[Caballoflaco]

Which would you feel more confident running while you’re lying on the floor and bleeding out?

[Joe in PNG]

Practice, and the ability to practice can be important. My home defense gun is my 9mm CZ Evo III because I have more opportunities to practice with it.

A shotgun is nice, but I'd have to find a friend with open land who would let me shoot there, which means practicing maybe once a month. The indoor ranges don't like shotguns.

For rifles & regular .223 carbines, the local range opens it's rifle lane once a week, and it's 50 yards only. Plus, ammo is a touch spendy.

My CZ, I can shoot on the pistol side of the range all week long. Plus, ammo is pretty cheap. So, while it is not as effective as either an AR or a 12ga, I shoot it far more and am far more familiar with it.

[Bigghoss]

If I had to have only one long gun for whatever reason I'd probably go with a 5.56 "pistol" with a 12.5" barrel.

[EricG]

Which do you have the most training, practice and familiarity with? That one.

I rotate between both carbine and shotgun, depending on my mood before I go to bed at night.

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