Portland Police's New Knife Policy

[Lester Polfus]

I suspect that this policy was driven more by the fact that a suspect was shot than by any concern about an officer being potentially filleted by his or her own knife.

I think both are perfectly valid concerns. When you create the exigency that led to somebody being shot because you lost control of your own weapon, that's a really bad day at work.

[UNM1136]

Sorry, my overly long nurse example was meant to illustrate that when you pull out a fixed blade you are pretty much married to it. If the situation changes as you cut the noose off of someone's neck and then you have a non lethal fight with a suicidal person, (BTDT, even seen it on Cops), you gotta do something. Resheathing in a hurry is something not too many practice. Or even consider. A one handed folder, that I had, was easy to safe and be rid of, and shears or strap cutter would have been better.

pat

[BehindBlueI's]

I have seen arguments that such a policy is foolish because Tasers and pepper spray is carried openly.

You at least have to undo a thumb snap and rock a hood to get my Taser. You have to undo a thumb snap and get my OC out of the pouch then orient it to get your thumb under the safety flap. How often do the openly displayed knives have any retention vs yank-and-stick ready?

[Lester Polfus]

You at least have to undo a thumb snap and rock a hood to get my Taser. You have to undo a thumb snap and get my OC out of the pouch then orient it to get your thumb under the safety flap. How often do the openly displayed knives have any retention vs yank-and-stick ready?

Even without a deliberate attempt for somebody to yank it out, I think there's a non-trivial chance of many knives coming out of the sheath during a rough and tumble.

ETA:

Did anyone else see Chief Outlaw's quote “It was created after proactively identifying a shortcoming in policy,’’ Outlaw told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Tuesday.

Can you really say the word "proactive" in this case with a straight face?

[Gray01]

I suspect that this policy was driven more by the fact that a suspect was shot than by any concern about an officer being potentially filleted by his or her own knife.

X's 10


I have zero problems with the issue regarding secure positioning of equipment, but the above IS the reason for the attention.

I will also politely take issue with Mr. Polfus' statement: "When you create the exigency that led to somebody being shot because you lost control of your own weapon, that's a really bad day at work."

He did create the exigency; he did not "lose control" of his weapon in any greater sense than an officer could "lose control" during a firearm disarmament. The perpetrator intentionally created the exigency when he, by force, removed the weapon from the officer, and then intentionally failed to surrender the weapon and obey lawful commands.

I am not suggesting that there cannot be safer types and methods of equipping oneself, but I think that it is inaccurate to blame the officer for the conduct of the perpetrator.

[Gray01]

He did NOT create the exigency....

Fixed it to say: He did not create the exigency.

[Drang]

Fixed it to say: She did not create the exigency.

FIFY. Met a Seattle PD Sergeant named Outlaw, wondering if (or how) they're related.

I'm guessing "proactive" in this case means "Before we get sued again or have a really stupid and onerous regulation shoved down our throats."

[rathos]

Not saying that your argument is wrong, but do you carry a baton? If so does it have retention? I haven't seen a retention holster for a baton, and if someone gets a hold of that it becomes a deadly force incident. I am not seeing any one say batons shouldn't be carried.

You at least have to undo a thumb snap and rock a hood to get my Taser. You have to undo a thumb snap and get my OC out of the pouch then orient it to get your thumb under the safety flap. How often do the openly displayed knives have any retention vs yank-and-stick ready?

[farscott]

You at least have to undo a thumb snap and rock a hood to get my Taser. You have to undo a thumb snap and get my OC out of the pouch then orient it to get your thumb under the safety flap. How often do the openly displayed knives have any retention vs yank-and-stick ready?

There seems to be an opportunity for some enterprising individual or company to create a pouch that securely holds a knife and requires an officer to manipulate the pouch to access a knife. If such a product existed, it would alleviate the need for the policy.

[BehindBlueI's]

Not saying that your argument is wrong, but do you carry a baton? If so does it have retention? I haven't seen a retention holster for a baton, and if someone gets a hold of that it becomes a deadly force incident. I am not seeing any one say batons shouldn't be carried.

My collapsible does, though limited to friction and it needing to come straight up or else it binds and won't come out. It's significantly harder to access by someone facing me or entangled with me then a knife carried in the manner we are talking about, and really the OC is probably the easiest thing to get. If I'm carrying my riot stick, it does not have retention, but of course that's a different application.

There seems to be an opportunity for some enterprising individual or company to create a pouch that securely holds a knife and requires an officer to manipulate the pouch to access a knife. If such a product existed, it would alleviate the need for the policy.

There are thumb lock sheathes. I've got one, although it's for a neck knife.

There's also this:



I don't know anyone who's specifically making one for duty belts or MOLLE vests, though I've not really looked.