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Thread: Trigger Control

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    A couple weeks with a dot has revealed that my trigger control isn’t as good as my iron sights had led me to believe.
    Interesting parallel from shooting a rifle offhand (NRA style) with irons vs a magnifying scope. The scope shows you everything about your hold and trigger control that you couldn't see without that magnification.

    But if you're shooting mid 190s offhand with irons, why is all of a sudden all that movement (that was always there but you couldn't see) a bad thing?

    It's not.

    The results on target, not what you can see through different sights, are what define how good your trigger control (or any other technical element) is.

  2. #22
    Member feudist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Interesting parallel from shooting a rifle offhand (NRA style) with irons vs a magnifying scope. The scope shows you everything about your hold and trigger control that you couldn't see without that magnification.

    But if you're shooting mid 190s offhand with irons, why is all of a sudden all that movement (that was always there but you couldn't see) a bad thing?

    It's not.

    The results on target, not what you can see through different sights, are what define how good your trigger control (or any other technical element) is.
    It's very diagnostic. The errors you see with with the dot on a handgun help identify the problems reflected on the target.

    Shooting at speed with a pistol it floods you with a lot more visual information that takes some practice to realize what's important and what's not.

    As GJM has posted about previously, that extra information can slow you down. You ca actually shoot the dot as a "streak" instead of a dot and still hit precisely. You gotta learn to trust.

  3. #23
    Hammertime
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    Apr 2016
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    Desert Southwest
    I think the key is staying calm and not allowing yourself to yank the gun off target trying to control recoil too early. This becomes more difficult as the time pressure and target difficulty increase.

    Sight alignment just isn’t hard IMO.

    Holding sight alignment while pulling a trigger dry isn’t hard either. No matter the grip or technique.

    Doing all that live with an explosion under time pressure is the killer. That requires lots of practice. I think the super hard grip recommended by some just lets us use proportionally less muscle to yank the gun off target controlling recoil. I prefer the TPC idea of “letting recoil happen.”

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I think the key is staying calm
    Much practice beforehand and then, when it counts, coolness. The "Shooting without emotion" thread comes to mind.

    Focussing the mind on the two or three most important techniques, when there is time for it, helps me to stay cool. Not only in shooting. Before, it helped me in riding my motorbike on racetracks and then in starting and landing with my paramotor.

    Conscious relaxing of muscles can help, too. And deep breathing.
    Last edited by P30; 02-23-2019 at 01:51 PM.

  5. #25
    I like dry fire practice, in part due to my hours. I tend to spend some time at night doing it, after work (home various times between 10pm and midnight). However, trigger control feedback, varies in part due to equipment issues.

    Can one give laser suggestions, that they have had good luck with? Dry fire with my Laserlyte and .40 has caused improvements after my sight swap (knew where to aim compared to originals). But the Laser Ammo brand ones, seem to not be centered (can see the laser spin, where sometimes I can see I am somewhat angling the pistol while others appears straight, but the laser has spun and the dot is in a different area).

    If I can get the laser figured out, I plan on using Shootoff, a timer (awaiting my preorder), and various targets, between range time. It made a big difference last year, with my limited range time.

  6. #26
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Feb 2012
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    Braselton, GA
    I like a lot of what’s been posted. As I’ve said before, I think too little is made of grip nuance and too much is made of trigger nuance. They are both very closely related and/or tied together. In my experience the crush grip masks poor trigger control and works fine for speed, but shooting bullseyes like that will yield less than satisfactory results. Intentionally torquing the gun to control recoil will have negative results, especially as you fatigue and are no longer balancing those forces the same way.

    To me, it begins with a neutral grip
    Then, isolating the trigger finger completely from the grip. This becomes especially important in SHO and WHO.
    Next is placement of finger on the trigger. This is where it gets sticky based on hand size, finger length, and gun ergonomics. Also, it matters less where your finger starts on the trigger, but where it finishes. Start at the point of the break and work backwards so that you’re able to repeatedly break the trigger with no unbalanced forces on the gun. High on the trigger, low on the trigger, tip, pad, joint, will be different based on shooter and platform. Balancing the forces is the key.

    GJM, JHC, TPC, are all right on with the continuous press. In my experience trying to stage a trigger leads to trigger freeze and target panic.

    From the world of target archery there’s a saying, “If you’re holding long you’re holding wrong.” Same with a pistol. The longer you hold and try to stage, (1) the more fatigued you get and (2) the more likely you are to punch the trigger.

    In my estimamion, punching a trigger comes from the nerves and muscles in your trigger finger hitting a “wall” of fatigue. In an effort to get through the wall, we try to send more force to that finger, but it usually ends up going to our whole hand. We sympathetically squeeze all our fingers and cause the shot move off target (usually low left for a right handed shooter).

    The way Ron puts it “finish at the speed you started” is a great way to break this habit.
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  7. #27
    Member
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    Apr 2013
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    Louisiana
    The series of short videos by Brian Zins from the NRA have been very informative to me.

    His comment that "the purpose of the trigger pull is to control the sights" was great, and the first time I had heard of that as a concept.

    Further, the "hard-to-hard" concept of trigger finger joint centered on the trigger was very clear.

    Lastly, his 2 ways of pulling the trigger, "Uninterrupted; or wrong" was also helpful.

    I find that the purpose of an ergonomic grip is to allow me to exert a lot of power and strength in my hand while still retaining fine control of my trigger finger. In addition to the additional steadiness offered by the modern two-handed grip, I try to exert my weak hand onto my strong hand to further that sensation of a heavy clamp with an agile trigger finger.

    I love creep, but only as long as it is smooth. Grittiness, stageiness, stop-go-go-stop-crunch triggers like the multiple "mini-walls" that have been discussed, particularly with Glock triggers, are a challenge to overcome- I try to keep a consistent speed on my trigger finger.

    My first revelation in sight tracking happened years back with a rental M&P trigger- the lack of reset pressure forced me into very concious "back-and-forth-and-back-and-forth" motion with my trigger finger that joined up well with what I saw seeing in the sights. Mr. Langdon's emphasis on conciously, quickly re-setting and then prepping the trigger during recoil and recovery was also great.

    I've got a copy of A.A. Yur'yev's Competitive Shooting on the bookshelf that I'm looking at as I type this. I have no desire to violate any copyrights, but if it would be permissible to post a couple of pictures or graphs, I found this book to be a fantastic resource on the technical act of shooting.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergeron View Post
    The series of short videos by Brian Zins from the NRA have been very informative to me.
    Can you add links or imbed the videos?

  9. #29
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    Louisiana
    Last edited by Bergeron; 02-24-2019 at 09:20 PM.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter
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    Aug 2011
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    Seminole Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I think the key is staying calm and not allowing yourself to yank the gun off target trying to control recoil too early. This becomes more difficult as the time pressure and target difficulty increase.

    Sight alignment just isn’t hard IMO.

    Holding sight alignment while pulling a trigger dry isn’t hard either. No matter the grip or technique.

    Doing all that live with an explosion under time pressure is the killer. That requires lots of practice. I think the super hard grip recommended by some just lets us use proportionally less muscle to yank the gun off target controlling recoil. I prefer the TPC idea of “letting recoil happen.”
    This is where I am at personally.

    Some of my lessons learned

    The longer I stayed working with short triggers, the harder it was for me to become even mediocre with a DA trigger. The mental aspects here are extremely difficult for me to overcome.

    Isolate the trigger finger as much as you can.

    Analyze how your finger is moving in space to ensure you are getting a trigger pull that is truly straight back.

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