It's Not a Tumor, and it might help with recoil on P22X series guns

[tyrusasmith]

I'm an engineering dropout. I can do the work, but can't do the calculus. Now I manage a group of engineers.

For my P229 I've designed, coded, and machined a SS guide rod; and designed and 3d printed mag baseplates to mate P226 mags to my P229 without the gap.

For my latest pistol mod, I'm trying to attain a Bob Vogel super high grip without hitting the decocker or slide stop. To do this I'm applying JB weld in a bulge to shield the drumstick of my hand from touching the already cut decocker. Just a little pressure causes light strikes. The first bulge solved that problem. In addition I want 100% reliable slide stop activation, so that required a second bulge.

Once I run these prototypes through their paces, I'll 3d print my own grip panel that looks nicer.

Here are some progress pics, with semi high speed videos below. Based on the videos, do you think this grip mod reduces recoil vs a typical Sig grip that yall are used to?

I made 2 videos, and edited another with this sketch effect in hopes to add clarity.

https://youtu.be/w7caekbPOdI
https://youtu.be/AcPgaCFXGU0
https://youtu.be/rLwdG3-xWSE

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[GuanoLoco]

JB Weld, awesome. Did you also use a Dremel, and Scotch? It has to be Scotch or it doesn’t work right.

[LittleLebowski]

How have your splits changed with it?

[tyrusasmith]

Nope, just JB Weld, sandpaper, and a triangle file. I know it looks ugly as sin, but I think it works. The 3d printed one will hopefully restore my dignity.

[GuanoLoco]

Good on you for experimenting to see what works for you. Don’t forget the Scotch next time.

[tyrusasmith]

How have your splits changed with it?

All at 7 yards, ( all this data is from drills practicing for Gabe White's pin runs)

Before I cut the decocker I could do .27 on a letter size sheet of paper. After I cut the decocker and scooted up some on the grip I could do .24 on a letter size sheet of paper, but would have occasional light primer strikes.

The bulge #1 and tons of practice got me reliable operation, and .21-.24 splits on USPSA A zone, and .27-.35 (single action after transition) splits on a 6" square / headbox. The slide stop would work about 10% of the time.

Bulge #2 doesn't seem to have slowed me down, but allows 100% slide stop operation.

I don't have a fast trigger finger, or I have a mental block that won't let me shoot this P229 sub .20 even into a berm. I can shoot a P320FS into the berm and get .18-.19, but at that speed I'm getting lots of high and low hits.

[GuanoLoco]

Chicks dig fast splits and all, and I have spent a fair amount of time on the Gabe White Standards, but you might be going about this the wrong way.

At 54, I don’t have a particularly fast trigger, but with practice I can usually manage .19-.22 on things like Glock 19’s and CZ P-07/P-09, or even a Tanfo Stock 2.

A lot of it has to do with grip - strong grip witht he weak hand for recoil control, and relaxing the string hand just enough to allow the trigger finger to move. Excess tension in the strong hand slows the trigger finger.

Getting faster splits than this for me is a peculiar proposition. I can get faster splits but I have to relax my grip and let the gun move a little more, almost like I am letting a little bump fire action help me out. At the same time I have to pay extra attention to the sights and grip lest my group size increase too much and I start losing time from inaccuracy penalties.

Each gun and trigger has its own subtle characteristics. I find I can hit fast, accurate splits more easily with the CGW Pro-Upgrade trigger kit, short reset and polish job than the Glock 19 with a lightly worked trigger. The Stock 2 is heavier, is equipped with some Palm Swell Bogies (fat, rough texture grips for my XL hands) and soaks up recoil a little better.

Finally, you might look at the designs used in USPSA Open and occasionally limited for a “Gas Pedal” style recoil control device. Basically it’s a bolted-on ledge on the weak ahnd side that you can apply strong hand pressure to to help control muzzle rise. This isn’t especially practical for carry use though. Some pistols have options for large safeties that approxomate this - one more thing to consider.

[tyrusasmith]

Chicks dig fast splits and all, and I have spent a fair amount of time on the Gabe White Standards, but you might be going about this the wrong way.

At 54, I don’t have a particularly fast trigger, but with practice I can usually manage .19-.22 on things like Glock 19’s and CZ P-07/P-09, or even a Tanfo Stock 2.

A lot of it has to do with grip - strong grip witht he weak hand for recoil control, and relaxing the string hand just enough to allow the trigger finger to move. Excess tension in the strong hand slows the trigger finger.

Getting faster splits than this for me is a peculiar proposition. I can get faster splits but I have to relax my grip and let the gun move a little more, almost like I am letting a little bump fire action help me out. At the same time I have to pay extra attention to the sights and grip lest my group size increase too much and I start losing time from inaccuracy penalties.

Each gun and trigger has its own subtle characteristics. I find I can hit fast, accurate splits more easily with the CGW Pro-Upgrade trigger kit, short reset and polish job than the Glock 19 with a lightly worked trigger. The Stock 2 is heavier, is equipped with some Palm Swell Bogies (fat, rough texture grips for my XL hands) and soaks up recoil a little better.

Finally, you might look at the designs used in USPSA Open and occasionally limited for a “Gas Pedal” style recoil control device. Basically it’s a bolted-on ledge on the weak ahnd side that you can apply strong hand pressure to to help control muzzle rise. This isn’t especially practical for carry use though. Some pistols have options for large safeties that approxomate this - one more thing to consider.

I originally had this gun in .357SIG, and a .40 barrel with the E2 grips. I found myself having to re-grip the gun during strings of fire. I got the Houge G10 Chainlinks and that solved the problem for the most part. I still feel like I couldn't get purchase with my support hand to squeeze the gun. I then read or watched something from Massad Ayoob where he indexed his support hand middle finger instead of trigger finger under the trigger guard, that made a huge difference, but that is where I took a deep dive into grip.

Seeing the improvement, I wanted to creep further and further up like Bob Vogel, and squeeze the gun like a madman. Then I started having to do the grip mods to keep the gun running because of how high I was on the gun. I was following the mantra of lots of pro shooters to grip the gun as hard as you could without shaking it. It was working great, my splits were staying .21-.24, and my accuracy was improving.

About that time I started practicing for Pistol Shooting Solutions, and I didn't want to change what was working. I switched from target focus to front sight focus, and saw huge gains again. The recoil mitigation steps I took really helped me to be able to track the sights through the whole cycle. That is something I feel I was unable to do before.

Also, somewhere in the learning process I stumbled upon Yong Lee's video and he suggested wrapping the support hand trigger finger around the trigger guard. HOLY Smokes, that is what I've been looking for, as long as you train to not shift the gun left or right, it works just like a super leverage gas pedal for me.

Now I've been reading and listening to some people ( Yong Lee in particular) who say not to grip like a monster. I didn't want to change my technique ( it was working) in the weeks leading to Pistol Shooting Solutions, but now I'm working it in to my practice to see about improving my splits without affecting accuracy. Mostly I just want to out split my brother-in-law who can get consistent .14-.17 splits on a 10" plate at 7 yards. Also, he does this with a Taurus PT 24/7 DS, that never jams, he is a wizard.

[Rex G]

Interesting! Good to see an inventor’s art.

I dealt with the annoying location of the controls by shooting my SIGs with my thumbs locked down, when shooting right-handed, but that may not work for fast splits and such. (I was concerned only with duty/carry, which is darned important, but not a time/place for ultra-fast splits; during my second SIG “phase,” I mostly used DAKs.)

Not that thumbs-down was anything new to me; it was how I had shot revolvers all along.

[tyrusasmith]

I forgot to post the pic of hand placement changes with and without the mod. See below.