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Thread: Miscellaneous NFA Trust Questions

  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Per the form 4 instructions

    f. Law Enforcement Notification. The transferee must provide a copy of the
    Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction
    over the area of the transferee’s address shown in item 2a of the Form 4
    . In
    addition, if the transferee is other than an individual, a copy of the Form
    5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Question
    naire, completed by each responsible person must be provided to their
    respective chief law enforcement officer. The chief law enforcement
    officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the
    State Police, or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor
    .

    g. Photographs and Fingerprints. An individual transferee, except if
    licensed as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA, must (1)
    attach to item 15 of the ATF Form 4, except for the CLEO copy a
    2 inch x 2 inch photograph of the frontal view of the transferee taken within
    1 year prior to the date of the application and (2) submit two properly
    completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card with blue lines) with the
    application. The fingerprints must be clear for accurate classification and
    taken by someone properly equipped to take them
    .
    Last edited by baddean; 02-22-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    Dean,
    “The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
    Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free
    “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.” - My Wife

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
    This is from the Responsible Persons form for use when applying using a trust.
    The reason I included this is to remind that this form also gets the passport photo and the two fingerprint cards in addition to those submitted with the form 1 or 4.

    Instructions
    1. Completion: Each responsible person (see definition 4) of a trust or legal entity seeking to make or acquire a National Firearms Act (NFA) firearm shall complete this form in
    duplicate. (see instruction 9)
    a. Each responsible person must submit his/her fingerprints and photograph with this form (see below).
    b. Please note that this form is not required when the applicant on Form 1, 4 or 5 is an individual.
    2. Item 2- Enter the name, trade name (if any) and address of the trust or legal entity identified on the Form 1 (items 3a and b); Form 4 (item 2a); or Form 5 (item 2a)
    3. Item 3- Responsible Person information
    a. Provide the information for the responsible person in items 3a through 3e.
    b. Item 3e - Photograph: The responsible person shall attach, in item 3e on the ATF copy of the form only, a 2-inch by 2-inch frontal view photograph taken within one year
    prior to the date of the filing of the form. Item 3c is obscured on the CLEO copy.
    4. Firearm information
    a. Type of NFA firearm: see definition 5 and as identified in item 4b of Form 1, 4, or 5
    b. Name of maker, manufacturer and/or importer: as identified in item 4a of Form 1, 4, or 5
    c. Firearm Model: identified in item 4d of Form 1, 4, or 5
    d. Caliber or Gauge: identified in item 4c of Form 1, 4 or 5
    e. Firearm Serial Number: identified in item 4g of Form 1, 4 or 5. Item 4e is obscured on the CLEO copy.
    5. Item 5- Law Enforcement Notification: Each responsible person must provide a notification on this form of the proposed making or acquisition of an NFA firearm to his/her
    chief law enforcement officer having jurisdiction where the responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the
    Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.
    6. Complete items 6 through 8
    7. Fingerprints: The responsible person shall submit, in duplicate with the ATF copy of this form, his or her fingerprints on FBI Form FD-258 and the fingerprints must be clear
    for accurate classification and taken by someone properly equipped to take them. No fingerprints are required with the copy of the form sent to the chief law enforcement
    officer.
    8. State or Local Permit: If the State in which the responsible person resides requires the responsible person to have a State or Local permit or licensee, a copy of the permit or
    license must be submitted with this form.
    9. Disposition: The ATF copy of the form, with the fingerprints and photograph, shall be submitted with the ATF Form 1, 4 or 5. The other copy shall be directed to the
    responsible person's chief law enforcement officer identified in item 5 of this form.
    10. Sign and date the form. The signature must be original.
    Last edited by baddean; 02-22-2019 at 12:02 PM.
    Dean,
    “The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
    Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free
    “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.” - My Wife

  3. #13
    PF Justice Warrior Chance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    D/FW, Texas
    So the ATF has to receive all of that with each transfer. Do you have to notify them when you found the trust? Can you keep fingerprints on file, or do you have to get a fresh set every time?
    "Trying is the first step toward irritating those around you who know better." - @angry_prof

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    So the ATF has to receive all of that with each transfer. Do you have to notify them when you found the trust? Can you keep fingerprints on file, or do you have to get a fresh set every time?
    I don't know what you mean in the bolded section?
    Finger prints can not kept on file. You must submit fresh each time you apply. And, no photo copies.
    I will say that if you anticipate purchasing more NFA items in the future you could get the appropriate number of extra print cards done at the time you get printed and save them for that future use.
    The only thing that can be kept on file is your Trust documents as noted below. For 24 months.
    The below is from the form 4.

    (4) Documentation of entity existence:
    (a) If the transferee is other than an individual, the transferee must attach
    documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity, which
    includes complete and unredacted copies of partnership agreements,
    articles of incorporation, corporate registration, declarations of trust with
    any trust schedules, attachments, exhibits, and enclosures.
    (b) If the transferee entity has had an application approved as a maker or
    transferee within the preceding 24 months of the date of filing the applica
    tion, and there has been no change to the documentation evidencing the
    existence and validity of the entity previously provided, the entity may
    provide a certification that the information has not been changed since the
    prior approval and shall identify the application for which the documenta
    tion had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date
    approved.
    Last edited by baddean; 02-22-2019 at 03:51 PM.
    Dean,
    “The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
    Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free
    “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.” - My Wife

  5. #15
    I have a trust with a couple SBS in it. It was set up before the whole fingerprint/photo thing. Is it possible to add someone to the trust, and would everybody on the trust need to submit that info now, or just the newbie?

  6. #16
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Lowcountry, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by vandal View Post
    I have a trust with a couple SBS in it. It was set up before the whole fingerprint/photo thing. Is it possible to add someone to the trust, and would everybody on the trust need to submit that info now, or just the newbie?
    Based on what Silencer Shop is doing with the one shot trusts, the additional people on the trust will only need to have background checks when something is added to the trust. Also, I’m not a lawyer, so please don’t take my word for it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Vandal,
    Some info for you regarding your question.
    A link to Q&A from the ATF.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/107196/download

    And an answer to your question from that Q&A,

    Q: Will new responsible persons, added after the making or transfer, be subject to the same requirements?
    A: Once an application has been approved, no documentation is required to be submitted to ATF when a new responsible person is added to a trust or legal entity. However, should a responsible person change after the application has been submitted, but before it is approved, the applicant or transferee must contact the NFA Branch for guidance.
    (I added the bold)

    Like 4GB said, the "newbie" would be required to submit the Responsible Person Questionnaire, with the requisite prints and photos, if you choose to add items to the trust. And so would you.
    Also keep in mind that if something were to happen to you that would require selling, trading, or otherwise disposing of the NFA items in the trust, the "newbie" would not be able to do that if they have not submitted to a background check with the ATF. Actually they would not even be able to legally possess the NFA items in the trust without you.
    It would be best to contact ATF for clarification.
    304-616-4500
    Martinsburg WV
    Last edited by baddean; 05-01-2019 at 10:03 AM.
    Dean,
    “The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine
    Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free
    “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.” - My Wife

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