Should I buy a new P226 X-Five Allround (or two), or am I dumb?

[tyrusasmith]

I don't know if all this backstory is necessary or appropriate in this forum section, but it may help you get a feel of where I'm coming from. In short, I want to buy a new P226 X-Five Allround for $2900, run it through its paces. If it proves reliable I'll get another and use the original as my AIWB carry gun. Am I dumb for choosing the X-Five over my P229, a P226, or P226 SSE for EDC and USPSA?

Other quick facts:

• I can shoot well enough to have earned a Light Pin* (* Lots of warm up, but hey I did it)
• I plan to dry fire practice at least 2 sessions per day at least 5 minutes per session.
• I need 2 identical guns eventually.
• I have and enjoy a P229R DA/SA, and my deceased father’s P229 DAK. I would never sell them, but I’m going to convert his DAK to a DA/SA slowly but surely.
• I can carry and conceal the weight of a X-Five no problem ( I’ve done some goofy tests).
• I’ve successfully tried carrying 5 inch size gun AIWB.
• I currently carry a P229R AIWB with P226 Mags.
• I don’t care if the gun gets taken away in a DGU.
• Price isn’t a big deal.

I’ll probably work the stuff below into a Gabe White AAR, and training journal soon, but this situation is prompting me to put this on paper and it applies to my current purchase decision. Read at your own risk.

About 6 years ago I made myself a challenge to try to get down to 200 lbs (from 240 at the time). I swore off donuts, and my prize for the challenge was a pile of donuts as a birthday cake and I'd be able to buy whatever gun I wanted. I got down to 210, and my wife got pregnant, I gained it all back. Got back down to 215, wife got pregnant again, gained it all back. Well, this past summer I got to 265 lbs and was feeling lazy and fat, so I started the challenge again on my birthday.

The new motivation was more specific, I'd get a KAC SR-15, and I'd be able to carry my P229 AIWB (and the donut cake thing). I was doing well at 220 lbs and started trying my wife's P320SC AIWB. It worked alright, but I wanted to carry my gun. My wife bought me a Fitbit after I was enamored over the data hers provided her and I went into overdrive to lose the additional weight. In anticipation for reaching my goal I started looking into AIWB holsters. I landed on the Keeper and then found out about Gabe White and watched Lucky Gunner’s review of the class.

Low and behold Gabe was scheduled to come to my area, so I booked the class immediately even though I didn’t know much more than that video review. I then ordered a Keeper. I did a ton of research into what the class was about, and found out about the pins. I went to my range and shot a bunch of ammo without a plan. I wasn’t getting any good times for pin runs. I then started listening to Firearms Nation Podcast and all the top shooters really harped on dry fire practice. I then made a plan and dry fire practiced for over an hour a day every day for 50 days. Mixed in there was 1000 rounds of live ammo. I could see immediate results in my performance, and also it was helping my physical fitness and weight loss goals. I really got hooked on pistol shooting about 10 days in, and my SR-15 dreams turned into P320 X5, P226 Legion, and P226 SSE dreams. I was determined to earn a light pin.


About 15 days in I ended up borrowing a G17.5, P226, and, P320 FS to see if any of these guns could beat my P229 on the Gabe White Standards. Except for the P226, they all won out. I attributed it to the Bob Vogel grip I could get on the other guns. Too high a grip on the P229 and I’d hit the already cut down decocker a little on the P229 causing light strikes. I then added a little bump on the P229 to shield the decocker from my support hand drumstick and started wrapping my support hand trigger finger on the trigger guard like Yong Lee. Then, my P229 beat out all the other guns in a variety of drills out to 7 yards. I was super excited and proud of my P229’s performance against these latest and greatest guns (The P226 was an old German folded slide model though).


A few days before the class, in dry fire, I was able to attain honest Turbo Pin runs 3 times in a row on all the drills except the Bill Drill after a significant warmup and many reps. In live fire, I could get Turbo on Failure to Stop and Immediate incapacitation after warmup, and about 3 or 4 reps. Light runs on the other 2. I was confident I could earn a light pin, but had Turbo in my grasp if I did my part.

This was my first match or class in 5 years, so I had match anxiety no matter how many times I relistened to Steve Anderson and Lanny Bassham in the few days before the class. To compound this I bought the cheapest remanufactured ammo and it was failing to ignite on a good number of rounds. I even had a squib on the second day. I tried to calm down, but my Fitbit was saying my heart rate never dropped below 131 BPM in the ½ hour leading up to the Bill Drill pin run. I was mostly just standing there doing nothing. My resting heart rate is 55 bpm. I ended up getting a 0 and a dark on the Bill Drill, then 2 darks on the FTS. The rest of the class day was less stressful and very fun.

Gabe, some classmates, and I went eat in the area then I drove another 1.5 hours back home. I got back at 9 and dry fired for about 2.5 hours, stayed focused the whole time. I woke up 3 hours early the next day, dry fired for ½ hour, went to Walmart, buy some factory ammo, and got the range about 1 hour before class at 6 am and started dry firing some more for another ½ hour – 45 minutes. Then during my wait to the pin runs, I practiced reacting to Gabe’s timer and clearing my garment. Honestly, I felt the timer anxiety was one of my biggest hurdles. In practice I set my timer to 1.5-2 second delay to get the most reps in. Gabe must have had his about 4-6 seconds. It felt like an eternity and that tripped me up. The dry fire practice immediately before helped out though. I ended getting 2 turbo runs on II, and 2 lights on the split bill drill. I left with a hard earned light pin and I was satisfied that I met my goal plus all the additional knowledge I got from the class.



I’ve always been a “watch out for the guy with one gun, he knows how to use it guy”, and Gabe’s philosophy of “compete with what you carry” has further solidified my thinking. I also think I need a carry gun that always stays in ready condition, and a range/ ranch gun that will get run to the ground when I’m out doing Cajun cowboy stuff in my muddy pasture. It has been a pain to try to keep my P229 in a condition for reliable carry, and bring it out to the ranch to get saw chips, mud, sweat, and other crap ( literal crap too) out of it. In the case of the P226 X-Five, if it starts choking when it gets really messy, I’ll bring my P229 out on those occasions, and the X-Five on the outings that have less potential for choked with debris status. I mainly use a pistol on the ranch to shoot venomous snakes, vultures, armadillos and nutria rats. I carry heavy items on my belt all the time, so I’m use to the weight the X-Five would impart. To test this theory, I’ve been junk carrying my P229 and a 1”, 1 lb. bolt in my pants to get used of the weight. It doesn’t seem to be a problem. Hell, I used to EDC 65+ extra pounds in my belly just 200 days ago.


In competition, lots of people shoot G17, or G35, Tanfo, and P320s. No one it seems is shooting a P229 at the top levels, and if they shoot a classic Sig they opt for a P226. I would be fine with a P320 X-Five, but I like the character of the SIG DA/SA, and I like thumbing the hammer during re-holstering. My wife said I can start shooting up to 6 matches a year, and now I want to make sure I’m equipped as well as I can be, and get a present for myself. My P229 with Trijicon HD XR does great at 7 yards both in accuracy and speed, but at 15 yards and beyond, I’m faster getting A zone hits with a P320 FS with stock 3 dot sights and a P226. To best test my p226 is better at distance theory, I stripped my P229 and put the trigger guts of mine in the P226. I left out the decocker so I could get a high grip without modifying the P226’s grip panel. I then shot the P226 better at distance. That leads me to believe there may be something to sight radius at distance. Sub 10 yards, my P229 still beats everything I’ve tried, I blame it on familiarity, and the sights.

All this brings me to my current mindset. I think that the choice should be among a P226, P226 Legion, P226 SSE, and P226 X-Five Allround. I’d think that the competition worthiness of each of those would ascend in that respective order and price seems to be the only con. (maybe too much weight for target transitions?, but people run equally heavy Tanfos) There may be a reliability issue with the X-Five for EDC, but if that proves to be the case after a couple thousand rounds I might just run an X-Five for competition and a similarly setup P226 SSE for carry. Am I missing something in my path to this conclusion for a Carry / Competition setup based on my situation?

[jwperry]

I would not want the exposed rear adjustable sight of the X5 on a carry gun. I also think that concealed carry holster selection might be difficult to non-existent.

I carry either a P229 or P226 90% of the time. (rare occasions a P239) Since adding RMRs, my long range shooting performance delta has evaporated when comparing my P229 or P226.

I have the same issue with you in regards to hitting the decocker, but my issue is with the P226. I don't really concern myself with what other people are shooting/excelling with because they aren't me(if that attitude makes sense). I like the Legion P229 over the classic P229 (the trigger guard undercut really does it for feel/control for me) but I'm pretty even on Legion vs standard P226. I liked my Legion P226 SAO so much that I sold my Nighthawk 1911s because they were redundant. I found that within 6 weeks of shooting the SAO that I prefer my Sigs in DA/SA, so I traded away my SAO for a 1301T.

Do you have much experience with the abbreviated Legion controls?

[tyrusasmith]

I would not want the exposed rear adjustable sight of the X5 on a carry gun. I also think that concealed carry holster selection might be difficult to non-existent.

I carry either a P229 or P226 90% of the time. (rare occasions a P239) Since adding RMRs, my long range shooting performance delta has evaporated when comparing my P229 or P226.

I have the same issue with you in regards to hitting the decocker, but my issue is with the P226. I don't really concern myself with what other people are shooting/excelling with because they aren't me(if that attitude makes sense). I like the Legion P229 over the classic P229 (the trigger guard undercut really does it for feel/control for me) but I'm pretty even on Legion vs standard P226. I liked my Legion P226 SAO so much that I sold my Nighthawk 1911s because they were redundant. I found that within 6 weeks of shooting the SAO that I prefer my Sigs in DA/SA, so I traded away my SAO for a 1301T.

Do you have much experience with the abbreviated Legion controls?

Thanks for your input.

Do you think this alternate available sight is equally as fragile?
X-Five Options Video


As far as holsters, I plan to get another Keeper even if I have to send the gun to them to make one. If that isn't possible, I'll try to replicate my P229 Holster with Kydex, or the 3d printer at work. I'll find a solution for a holster.

I may also go the Acro P1 route on my P229, but I really like irons right now. I'm still keeping RDS as a possibility.

I bought the P224 controls (same as legion) as soon as I learned they existed. They are better, but still cause light strikes and the slide stop disabling when shooting with a crazy high grip. The JB weld on the grip panel to make a bulge is my favorite workable solution.

[jwperry]

@tyrusasmith
That rear definitely looks more comfortable. I'm at work and can't watch the video with sound, but if that takes standard Sig dovetailed sights you can get Dawson to make custom height front sights to regulate your POA/POI to your liking. The X5 is a lot of gun...and a lot of expensive gun. I've never shot/held/seen one, so I can't comment on the overall quality of them, but I wonder if they're truly worth the expense over a GGI or Sig Armorer worked Sig. The classic folded slide is a mild deterrent for me personally too.

Have you tried any of the wood grips for Sigs? They're especially large and might help prevent you from accidentally activating the controls. I have small hands, so I wasn't be able to reach the DA trigger very well when I tried them.

[tyrusasmith]

@jwperry
Link to gun

The new X-Fives have machined slides, and the dovetail accepts standard Sig Classic Sights. I've tried a variety of grips including the wood ones, and they all do the same thing with my preferred grip. I'm not opposed to running a cut decocker, slide stop, and JB weld bump on the X-Five the same way I do with my P229. (I'd run some Houge G10 Chain link grips, not the fancy X-Five ones.)

[MSparks909]

You can snag two 9mm P226 Legions ($2,400), a holster ($80-100), and 2,000 rounds of 9mm ammo for the price of one P226 X-5 All around...just saying. I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze personally.

[Eric_L]

Congratulations on the weight loss! And the shooting, great good practice, and it sounds like you learned to practice very well in a short amount of time.

[taadski]

I've been known to shoot a Sig or two. And I own a pair of X5 Allrounds that are my production guns. They're really pleasant shooting pistols. They're tack drivers and typically run really well. But there exists a notable achilles heel for them, in my opinion. And that's their long internal extractor. The newer designed X5 version is a bunch better than the old ones that came in them. But it's still a weak point in the gun. I've broken or chipped a couple of them, and not at exceedingly high round counts. And that's not the bad part. The BAD part is replacements are particularly difficult to come by. I've literally only found one importer that regularly stocks them in the US. And they charge a premium penny for them, approaching $100 each. FWIW.

[tyrusasmith]

@taadski
I'm glad to hear from someone who owns a few.

• Do you have enough experience with regular P226s and/or P226 SSE to make a comparison among those models and the X-Five?
• Is the extractor something covered under warranty, and does SIG USA deal with warranty issues for these imported guns?

[tyrusasmith]

@taadski
I'm glad to hear from someone who owns a few.

• Do you have enough experience with regular P226s and/or P226 SSE to make a comparison among those models and the X-Five?
• Is the extractor something covered under warranty, and does SIG USA deal with warranty issues for these imported guns?

Doing more research, I've actually found your exact thoughts on the X Five vs others below: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post438263

I've been carrying aluminum P series pistols on the job for almost 20 years. My experimentation in the shooting sports the last several of those drove me to trying the steel framed versions. You know, fixing software with hardware and all.

I can't really quantify the differences in handling. The heavier guns FEEL slower, but I've NOT seen an increase in my draw times or transitions. Perhaps I'm just not at the skill level where that matters, but at my level, it has not shown up on the timer.

The recoil impulse, on the other hand, IS notably lighter with them. But the sight tracking characteristics still seem more dependent on the recoil spring weight, the ammunition PF and the slide weight/length than purely the weight of the frame IMO.

FWIW, I think the flattest shooting pistol I own is a 9mm X-5 Allround frame with a standard 226 slide on top. It shoots FLAT! Alas, I don't believe that combination is production legal (at least until they start importing the stainless 226 LDC). In the mean time my primary game gun will remain a resprung stainless 226. (And incidentally, my carry/duty guns will remain railed aluminum versions).

And not to start a debate, but I love the heck out of the beavertailed frames (yes even the old style ones). For hands *my size* (XL but thin), they don't at all negatively affect the height with which I'm able to grasp the grip. The contour up to where the beaver tail starts is identical to a standard frame.

Just my 2 cents.


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