New FBI Pistol Qual

[Tom Givens]

Is there a new target for this too or just new procedures? Thought I read in another thread there is a new target. Link?

The current course specifies the QIT target. You can use an IALEFI-QP or an RFTS-Q silhouette and don't count hits below the belt line. That's one of the reasons for the belt line on these targets. Hits must be inside the outline of the silhouette to count, breaking the line does not count.

They are still working on a new target. Progress in large agencies is incremental, at best. I think this course is a big step forward.

[SeriousStudent]

This is definitely a step forward, Tom. Thanks very much for your work on this. I think it will make the members of the Bureau safer, and us as well.

I started a new gig yesterday, and will be driving home past Dallas Pistol Club on my way home every day. So it sounds like I'll do this every Wednesday night at the range.

[1Rangemaster]

As mentioned in the class section, the First Person Safety class last weekend got a bonus with the opportunity to shoot this at the end of the day. We shot it from concealment, on the “T&T” target(please correct if I got that wrong) which has a “waist line”. Hits for points had to be in the bottle, above the line.
I appreciated the opportunity. I agree a bit sporty, especially(for me) when you throw in concealment.
Not intended as a criticism, more a question: why no two handed shooting at 3? I get that one wants to test single handed shooting, but is two handed at 3 just seen as a “gimme”?

[CCT125US]

With no QIT, ran this on a B8 instead. I was going for all in the 5.54 bullseye, so by my criteria I failed. Some strings were generous on the times, and I need to better use the time available to dial in the accuracy. Target has 5 prior hits circled and slashed.

USP9c
JRC CDAII
Blazer 124
Trijicon 3 dots
Definitely going in rotation

[Gio]

I wouldn’t read too much into the difficulty of a qual course. It’s designed to check the box to comply with policy, not train people to win gun fights or improve gun handling/shooting ability. This one is no different.

[ASH556]

I ran this today at the range on a Q-PT target. 48 out of 50. I tossed two just over the left shoulder at 25 yards from kneeling. I was way under par and should have slowed down more. I liked this course of fire and it was good to break the routine of just running my favorite drills and sitting at 25 yards because I really want to improve there. As a matter of fact I was so motivated after shooting this course of fire I spent 100 of the 200 I brought just on SHO and WHO from various ranges/positions and doing multiple drills which I haven't done in a while. I am going to have to remember and use drills like this to help break the cycle. @ASH556 & @Wayne Dobbs thank you for posting/mentioning this.

Hey @Mike C , please don’t take this as criticism, just trying to understand and benchmark a bit: is that 48/50 in the 8” circle or in the bottle?

Thanks!

[scjbash]

Is the passing score for agents still 80%?

[Mike C]

Hey @Mike C , please don’t take this as criticism, just trying to understand and benchmark a bit: is that 48/50 in the 8” circle or in the bottle?

Thanks!

No criticism taken. Sorry my explanation was vague and I should've taken photos. 48 rounds were in the Q bottle. 2 just outside the Q bottle over the shoulder on the left side as facing the target, (hence 48 /50). 5 more were in the Q bottle but were just outside the circle, (not including the two I threw out over the shoulder from kneeling when I first kneeled down). The other 5 that were just outside the circle were dropped shots from standing at 25 and anticipating recoil, ( I also think one of the low shots might have been from kneeling but I am unsure what happened with that particular shot). I checked the target after each string at distance but not until after the string at that distance was finished hence not knowing exactly where everything landed during the 25 yard string but having a good idea. I know everything I F'ed up was at 25 because sadly everything falls apart for me just past 20 yards. Admittedly I also need lots of work at shot calling. If I was better at shot calling then I would probably be able to better tell you what happed for each of the shots at 25 but can't exactly. When I get under the timer at 25 it really screws with my head. I really should have slowed down. The time on the 25 yard string in generous and I rushed and finished in just over 10.5 seconds. If I had taken more time I think I could have done better since I know I can keep a 4-6" group at 25 with no time hack and should've been able to keep it in the 8". I think that is why I like this course of fire, having to go from standing to kneeling at 25 under a time hack with aiming at an 8" circle gave me a bit of a pucker factor and I can see how my performance degraded knowing I needed to move faster but keep a tighter accuracy standard.

So to completely clarify, 48/50 in Q bottle. 43/50 if you are just counting 8" circle which makes me sad but that's how I faired.

[HCM]

Is the passing score for agents still 80%?

Yes.

[ST911]

I wouldn’t read too much into the difficulty of a qual course. It’s designed to check the box to comply with policy, not train people to win gun fights or improve gun handling/shooting ability. This one is no different.

That's true, but they can be an indicator. A more vigorous qualfication test often reflects higher expectations and standards through the intiial and continuing ed pipelines. A cop that can fire 4, reload, fire 4 in 8 seconds at the 7 yd (even on the QIT) is the Top Gun in an awful lot of areas.

Just as lesser tests often reflect lower standards. Recent discussion of various east-coast standards at 15yds is a good example. A transplant from the NE I had to work with had never seen a shot timer, turning target, or the 25yd line before.