New FBI Pistol Qual

[Tom Givens]

I shot this again on what I "think" is the right target: QIT97. I blazed a bunch of the times and was having fun until I got a little too careless at 15 and threw one high left, so I guess it's 98/100. Oh well.

Actually, that's a 96. The high right one doesn't count. The way they score the target the hole has to be on the inside of the target's outline. Grazes don't count.

We conducted a pistol instructor course this past weekend and used the new (January 2019) FBI pistol qualification course for the first time.

We had 16 students of highly variable skill level, from retired LE’s with lots of training to relative newbies and one or two real beginners. We had 5 females and 11 males. Only one student ran an optic, iron sights for everyone else.

The average score was 94.9%. Four students (25% of the class) shot a clean 100% score.

This version is convenient, in that it takes one fifty round box of ammunition and runs a bit quicker than the old version (PQC-13). There are 8 rounds at 25 yards now, instead of 10, which I think is more in line with reality. Seems like a fairly good baseline skill check at 90%+.

[That Guy]

What is the size of the target / scoring area, when compared to a more common target, such as an IPSC Metric or IDPA?

[Gio]

What is the size of the target / scoring area, when compared to a more common target, such as an IPSC Metric or IDPA?

The target is about the width of a USPSA C/IDPA -1 zone, but the target extends a little lower than a C/-1 zone.

[ASH556]

Made better use of the par times and shot it clean on the correct target just to say I did it.
ETA: Funny, 3 of the dropped (out of the small bottle) rounds were at 3yds because with a hanging target, muzzle blast is a thing and the target blew almost completely horizontal by the 3rd shot of each hand.

[Tom Givens]

Made better use of the par times and shot it clean on the correct target just to say I did it.

That's good work. Everyone should bear in mind, this was not designed for upper level shooters like the people who populate this forum. It is intended for employees who are not gun people, but who need to develop decent gunhandling and marksmanship skills with just quarterly exposure to shooting. This is light years ahead of the POST qualification course most state and local police officers qualify on.

[BigD]

That is actually 1.5 man days or 12 hours because you should have at least two instructors for remedial qualifications ( as a witnesss) in addition to the remedial shooter. For GS 13 LEOs with 25% LEAP, AVP etc their effective rate is about $56 per hour. 12 man hours for a half day remedial is $672.

Your figures aren't accurate, since those red shirts would have been getting paid to sit around drinking coffee and grumbling even if they didn't have to run someone through remedial training. And I think FBI uses non-Agents (someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure) as firearm instructors, they wouldn't be getting LEAP, and very few would be 13s.

[HCM]

Your figures aren't accurate, since those red shirts would have been getting paid to sit around drinking coffee and grumbling even if they didn't have to run someone through remedial training. And I think FBI uses non-Agents (someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure) as firearm instructors, they wouldn't be getting LEAP, and very few would be 13s.

Ok - you’re wrong.

1) Maybe in a local PD they might be sitting around but not in Federal LE. My Agency’s Field Office local Area Of Responsibility is an 8 hour drive north to south and a 6 hour drive east to west. The local FBI field office mirrors ours AOR. My Agency has 1 full time FI for that area and 700 LEOs and that person is a program manager doing all the logistics for firearms,body armor, ammo, ranges etc through out the AOR. They rarely get out to the range. The rest, including the firearms leads in the sub offices / RAs are all collateral duty FI’s who have other full time duties. The FBI Field Office for our AOR also has one full time FI for the same area and several hundred agents. The FI’s for all other Fed LE in my city (USMS, ATF, DEA etc) are all collateral duty as well.

2) The FBI uses some civilian SMEs or rehired annuitants at their academy in Quantico (as does FLETC) but in the field all FI’s are active Agents. FLETC’s civilian SMEs and rehires are all GS12/13s. They don’t get LEAP or AVP but most are double dipping and receiving a retirement check from elsewhere. It’s nice work if you can get it.

[BigD]

You’re right. I wasn’t even thinking about everyone that doesn’t work in the DC area.

[BobM]

Last summer I had my department fire this course ( the version in effect at the time) immediately after the required Ohio 25 round course. I thought it would be a constructive way to use up the remainder of their duty ammo. Everyone passed but their was only one 60/60. There are always at least half of the officers shooting a 25/25 on the state course. I also thought it was good to have the officers meeting a tougher standard. I'm planning on them running it again this spring.