Yeah, and a year later someone offered him $90K for the undriven one. He could have essentially had a free one. He didn’t take it though.Originally Posted by theJanitor
Yeah, and a year later someone offered him $90K for the undriven one. He could have essentially had a free one. He didn’t take it though.
Not my cup of tea (if I had absurd money and wanted to buy a rare, turbocharged car from the 1980s, it would almost certainly be a Porsche 959), but I totally get the drooling - a time capsule like that is pretty awesome, and that GNX does look pretty mean.
I mean that's just a 2JZ and that would be a BIG motor to try to cram into a GTV. Several other things going on there, the Alfa motor is all aluminum, so you drop a cast-iron block I6 in, you're further disrupting the weight distribution.
Given that the Alfa engine is a DOHC, hemi-chambered, engine that was capable from the get go to reach 8k - the power capability is there. Add in that later versions of the 2000cc engine had variable valve timing (which can be adapted to the earlier motors), and sequential port injection, making turbocharging pretty easy, it's not hard to build a Alfa motor that turns 300 horsepower and is (shockingly enough...) reliable.
And since a 105/115-series GTV weighs about <2300 pounds...230 horsepower would be 10:1
Zero interest in anything American-made from the 80s and 90s.
Give me a gen 1 Mazda RX-7, BMW 2002 or 320i, Toyota Supra, VW Golf GTi Mk 1, or (yeah) Datsun 280Z.
Who knows how to drive and who doesn't is quickly sorted in the late apex.
Uuh... no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota...e#Generation_5
Not as much peak power, but a lot more usable torque curve than an F20. The 3S is iron, but it's a reasonably modern, lightish cast iron design. And comes with a sweet transmission attached. And if turbo is on the table, drop some low compression pistons in it and make 400 hp easy.
My understanding is that the Alfa motor needed a ton of expensive work to hold together at high RPM, due to the cylinder liners wanting to move about. I don't know much about the stuff after the early '80s, which is what it sounds like you're talking about.
Last edited by OlongJohnson; 02-16-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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Not another dime.
When someone says Altezza, I think 2JZ, sorry. The 3S-GE is a nice motor, but by the time you conduct the swap, move the firewall to get the weight distribution back, re-do the tunnel for the new transmission, and throw in a near rear axle to handle the power, etc, I'm not sure it's really worth the effort, in this realm.
Not when you have a usable, robust, 5-speed that bolts right in (assuming you don't start with a late 105/115 which had them stock) and a light engine platform with 51/49 weight distribution from the get go.
I mean at the end of the day, you pay to play, right? Everything Euro is more expensive than Japanese or American. The real question is what you're trying to do with the ride in question.My understanding is that the Alfa motor needed a ton of expensive work to hold together at high RPM, due to the cylinder liners wanting to move about. I don't know much about the stuff after the early '80s, which is what it sounds like you're talking about.
In the wholly theoretical building hot-rods, realm. I'd probably want a step-nose GTV, stripped, caged, and stuffed with an 8C V8 and dual-clutch gearbox.
I remember having the oil changed in my ‘85 Honda Accord at about 36,000 miles. The guy at the garage asked me if I had any trouble with it. I said no. He pointed at a ‘85 Buick that a customer had dropped off. He said it had been one thing after another for that car. He said that I had chosen well.
I sort of remember the 1980s as being sucky for American cars. Ford = “Found on road, dead” Chrysler = “Company has recommended you start learning engine repair”. There was one for Chevy, too. I test-drove a Chevette, it was the only car for which one timed 0-60 with a calendar.
So when somebody is paying six figures for an ‘80s Buick, I’d suggest checking that person for dain bramage.
If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.
Well, to be fair, I believe the ceramic turbos in the GNX had something approximating a 100 percent failure rate. The one in the OP probably hasn't gone yet.
Fortunately, we're about 20 years into turbos being good now.
And because I can't let go, I'd also think a 20V 4A-GE in the Alfa would be sweet. A lot smaller and lighter than the 3S, factory ITBs, and I've seen them go to ~9k without mods. A guy who took one to Bonneville said something along the lines of, "Dropped the compression, hit it with 2X psi, spun it to 10,000 rpm and made 600 hp." It's been almost two decades since I was told that, so don't hold me to the details.
Last edited by OlongJohnson; 02-16-2019 at 11:19 PM.
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Not another dime.
Speaking'of reliability....the crate 306 in my E30 carries a 30 month 50,000 mile warranty. Very understressed.
That Bonneville car was rather famous. It was a Bob Norwood built SW20 MR2 and featured a bespoke 1.5L custom crank and rotating assembly. They built a similar 4AGE block with a 1.0L combination too - both were intended to and totally smashed the land speed records in their respective displacement classes. They actually took the records from Alfa Romeos, if memory serves.
For a street build the 'Blacktop' 20V 4AGE has a wonderful block and crank but the rods and pistons are very weak for a turbocharged build, and there's complications making the factory plastic ITB intake plenum play nice with forced induction. The earlier 20v 'silvertop' engines had an aluminum plenum that was much easier to work with, but it wasn't as good of an engine NA as the blacktop.
But either work great for boost with a pair of moderately sized cams and rods/pistons, and with a decent turbocharger setup, fuel system, and EMS they're in the mid 400's on pump gas these days. The larger problem with big power 4AGE's are keeping transmissions behind them. Many folks spend quite a bit with custom conversion parts to make the NA Supra's W58 or the Altezza's J160 6-spd play nice on a 4A block. It's a lot of work, though, which is why I sold my AE86's (and still immensely regret it) and same with my 89 MR2 SC - the 4AGE/4AGZE are wonderful engines but they plateau quickly on easy modifications and it gets very expensive fast to get wild. I've actually got a 20v blacktop from a Levin BZ-R which came with a C160 6-spd trans and a factory LSD, all of which will be getting stuffed into my Dad's ex SCCA ITA '85 MR2 track toy someday.
Truly, though, if we're going down the road of Japanese 4 cylinders, ultimately the Honda K24 hybrid (K20A2 head on a TSX block) is light years ahead of even the best 3S-GTE or SR20 or 4AGE builds. 300whp on pump gas, naturally aspirated, is totally formulaic at this point for a K24 hybrid. With a built/sleeved block and turbocharged they're in the 1200whp+ range on E85.
They have more torque than an F20 or F22, and a massive aftermarket support and a surprisingly good stock PCM that is easily remapped with Kpro and other software packages. If you can't make the taller deck height of the K24 work, the K20 is damn impressive too, though it makes less midrange torque as you'd expect.
The Altezza only came with a 3S-GE. The IS200 used a 1G-GE 2.0L I6, and the IS300 we all see in the states was the only version of that chassis to get a 2JZ, and it was only here in North America. So yeah the cars all look basically the same but the engines were substantially different. Gotta love Toyota for those things. Much like how the Soarer in Japan got the 280+hp twin turbo 1JZ-GTE all along but here in the states we made due with much less exciting engines.
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