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Thread: ECQC AAR - Florida, Feb 2019

  1. #21
    Member feudist's Avatar
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    A taint shot would really highlight the FBI penetration protocol.

    Doc, what are your thoughts/findings?

  2. #22
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    Instead of taint-shooting, we should get a beer... I think @Matt Little and I will be teaching a class at OK Shooting in April (13th&14th), which is in your neck of the woods.

    I gotta get to a ShivWorks class sometime soon.
    Sounds like a much better plan.

    I’m flew in from Birmingham for the class, so I’m not a local. I do look forward to meeting you someday though.

    In hindsight I was sorely remiss in waiting so long to take ECQC and can’t wait to take EWO and/or another round of ECQC. After I heal, that is. It’s a week later and I am still short of 100%. The biggest issue is my hands - I’m pretty sure I sprained my right hand / pointer finger and strained the hell out of both hands with all the gripping from drills and death gripping in evos. But I’m slowly turning into an old man so there’s that.
    Last edited by GuanoLoco; 02-18-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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  3. #23
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    OK, I also received a partial recording of most but not all of the taint shot video. The video starts a little late and has a framing issue at one point but is interesting in that it shows a different angle. Things were happening pretty quick.



    Another meme-worthy still frame extracted from the video.

    “Don’t Taint-Shoot Me Bro!”

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    Last edited by GuanoLoco; 02-18-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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  4. #24
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    OK, now I have video of an Evo that I thought had not been recorded. I did capture my perception and recollection of this Evo earlier in this thread, and I will copy it here. What I find particularly interesting is the differences between the video and what I thought happened - and where I couldn’t see what was going on, was confused and/or mis-remembered details and/or struggled with remembering the precise time sequencing.

    First, the video:



    Here is what I wrote. Analysis of the differences to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    In one of my evolutions my ‘Unknown Contact’ came in pretty agressively both verbally (volume, agressions, threats to do me harm immediately) and physically in terms of closing the gap. I briefly tried verbal de-escalation with hands up, and began an arcing rearward movement - to little avail. I changed channel to a “BACK the FUCK UP!!!” command and got no change in behavior so I decided to take the initiative with a hopefully untelegraphed eye strike.

    Even wearing a FIST helmet and goggles, this caused the aggressor to pause a tick, time that I used to take a step or two back and do a concealed AIWB draw. As my opponent closed hard and fast I was able to get two hits to the chest before the gun failed to fire. I’m not sure why it failed but I was now in contact distance to I underhand tossed the gun away, bet on my rusty grappling skills and went hands-on.

    I immedialely tied up my opponent standing and went for a trip type of throw. I didn’t get video but I think it was a kosoto gari (minor outside reap) with my strong side leg and I almost immediately found myself on the ground in more of less a side control on top of my opponent. I started working for arm control when I realized that my opponent has produced a hidden training knife and was attempting to get to work on me. I have no idea whether the knife was produced before or after my takedown but I’ll admit to being a little shocked my it’s sudden and wholly unexpected appearance.

    After a VERY brief bit of what Craig described as knife “tip-work” on me I was able to capture the arm and apply a bent arm bar, when I started to hear some yelling. I was able to almost immediately get control of the knife and chose to toss it as well as I realized that the SECOND unknown contact (oh crap, forgot about that!!!) was yelling at me to “Get Off Him”. I also perceived that this second contact had a pistol so I did my best to verbally recruit the new contact to my side, loudly stating that the other guy had attacked me.

    Compliance seemed an excellent idea at this point, so I carefully got up off my opponent ... and the 2nd contact promptly shot my opponent in the face. Later I found out that the 2nd contact was equipped with my malf’d and now cleared pistol that I SHOULD have thrown into next week - not just out of our immediate area. I also learned that in the fog of war, contact #2 was supposed to be a friend of contact #1, but got confused and shot him in the face instead - with my gun. Fog of War indeed...

    I’d say this Evo went about as well as I could have hoped. I was able to use a number of the MUC techniques I had been taught, AND some of my grappling skills. Still, it was an engagement that could have easily resulted in serious injury or death from either individual #1 with the concealed knife or individual #2 - his confused buddy.

    In hindsight I think i would have been better off arcing hard instead of retreating straight back during the draw. This MIGHT have hindered Opponent #1’s ability to close to contact distance while I pumped him full of sim rounds. I have a pretty fast concealed draw, had/made time and space, and STILL was only able to get off 2 shots + the malf shot before my position was overrun.

    Sobering. Sobering indeed.

    I did not get any video of this Evo. If anyone in the class watched this and had a different take on it I’d be interested to hear it - particularly on where/when that knife was produced.
    Last edited by GuanoLoco; 02-18-2019 at 07:25 PM.
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  5. #25
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Analysis:

    First the MUC part.
    • My hands are more or less up but in more of a static, obviously defensive posture as opposed to a more natural “talking with your hands” posture.
    • My MUC loop is far from polished and costing me more mental cycles than I would prefer.
    • The audio volume and quality of my opponent is much louder and clearer than mine - not good.
    • My recollection of a deliberate, bellowed command to “BACK THE FUCK OFF!!!” sounded more like “Back Off!” In the video. It was filtered through a FIST helmet but still, far less startling and commanding than I intended.
    • I THINK I might have got sucked into the verbal repetition loop with a “No, You back the Fuck Off”. Not good.
    • The timing and quality of my premptive eye-strike immediately after my attacker said “I’m going to rip your fucking throat out” seemed quite reasonable.

    Now, on to the combatives part. My plan, after the eye strike stunned my opponent, was to back pedal a couple of steps into hopefully known, clear space, execute a draw from concealment that would make @Mr_White proud, and welt my attacker into submission with a stream of upper A-zone hits. That’s not exactly what happened though.

    I’m sure the FIST helmet, experience, and amp-ed up state of my attacker all contributed to a notable lack of effectiveness of the eye strike. I think I struck plenty hard for the eye strike, but not hard enough to account for the protective headgear. The problem is that this further inflamed my attacker who came in hard to make good on his threats.

    Even with my opponent almost on me and closing ahrd I managed to complete the draw and get in 2 shots - with impacts lower than I would have liked, followed by a 3rd apparently contact shot to his belly that also caused a FTE. Lots of FTE’s in the Evo’s I noticed...learning is occurring.

    OK, here’s the wierd part. I was so focused on executing that part of the plan that I remember the PLAN better than the REALITY. I remember being confused by the 3rd shot both going off AND malfunctioning, and being confused about how my opponent could have closed with me so quickly. We danced a full 360 that I don’t remember at all ... lost time in my memories. I do clearly recall tossing the malfunctioning gun (not NEARLY far enough), getting a standing grip and doing the ko-soto-gari (minor outside reap) take down though.

    <cont.>
    Last edited by GuanoLoco; 02-18-2019 at 08:43 PM.
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  6. #26
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    The kazushi (off-balancing) of my opponent immediately preceding my throw seemed pretty good. My incorrect mental recollection was coming down into more of a side mount although I clearly was in a half guard.

    I was attempting to improve my position with my toes dug in, but was temporarily stymied by my opponent’s double overhooks and a gable grip pinning my arms. I responded with a little unpleasant ‘Shoulder of Justice’ action on his jaw just under his FIST helmet, unfortunately giving him the space required to retrieve a yellow training knife from his belt. He promptly started stitching my left side abdomen. Oops!. Several points scored for the bad guy before I realized and starting working to shut that shit down. At least my liver is on the other side, and I have (at least had) two kidneys.

    I didn’t have control of his knife hand yet, so he did his best to carve some scars into my left shoulder. I didn’t mind too much though, ‘cause chicks dig scars. @SouthNarc didn’t tell me that, but it sounds like something he would say. I used my shoulder to pin the knife hand, but didn’t like my position so I went for a leg coil with my right leg and initiated a half of what we used to call the ‘Saturday Night Ride’. I stretched out, arched and focused my chest weight as best I could.

    I imagine this was also unpleasant ... then Craig released the Kraken, I mean the second Unknown Contact. We were not supposed to plan for this and by gawd I followed the instruction to the letter and was completely task focused and caught off guard. Yup, another Oops. This MUC/entangled fight for your life stuff is inherently problematic. More learning is starting to occur.

    <cont.>
    Last edited by GuanoLoco; 02-18-2019 at 09:32 PM.
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  7. #27
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    I got distracted and didn’t finish my analysis, which was probably boring y’allt to tears anyhow.

    I do have another couple of videos from the Sat night, 1-on-1 evos. Yup, on the range, grass, rocks, brass and roots. It’s dark but a few of us had flashlights and in later evos someone pointed some car headlights overtop. Not that you can see all that well in a FIST helment anyhow, I was msotly working by feel.

    In this first round I start on my back and have the only concealed pistol. My (younger, bigger, grappling-skilled) opponent needs to pass my guard, which he does easily, and is only allowed to attempt to take my pistol proactively if he feels it in the course of the evo.

    In hindsight I might have been better off to run with the arm bar, but I wanted to stick with the learning experience of trying to bring the pistol into the engagement.

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  8. #28
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Round #2 I start on top. My opponent attempts to catch me in a triangle leg lock but I’ve seen this before, stack him and I assume also compress his diaphragm, which makes breathing difficult.

    At the very end I go to set up a strangle trying to slip my arm under the FIST helmet. His helmet gets twisted across his face, or perhaps more accurately his head twists but his helmet doen’t twist with it and it covers his face.

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  9. #29
    Member Dropkick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    His helmet gets twisted across his face, or perhaps more accurately his head twists but his helmet doen’t twist with it and it covers his face.
    I bet he didn't even noticed compared to trying to see out the visor in the dark!

  10. #30
    Dude, that's some great footage of some interesting evos between well-partnered opponents. Thank you for posting those!
    Jules
    Runcible Works

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