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Thread: I want this. Just because - 9mm Gatling

  1. #21
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drang View Post
    Or a bolt action, or a lever action, or...
    Sure, but none of which pertain to the firearm being discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    There is something drastically different. The 10/22 "gatling" kits are just kits to stick two semi-auto weapons together. The trick here is the reloading.

    The NFA considers a fully automatic weapon to be: Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act (NFA).

    A gatling gun (proper) requires the manual turning of the crank to fire, eject, and subsequently reload each chamber in each barrel. A partial turn of the crank will only fire a round, and do nothing else. A full crank rotation is required to complete the process. In other words, a gatling gun is not capable of firing more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger (sear). It is only capable of firing a single round, period, by single function of the trigger, and requires manual operation to reload and fire again.

    In the 10/22/AR15/etc case. There the semi-automatic actions use recoil and/or gas to extract and reload the chamber of the barrel. They get away with crank firing, because the crank only trips the trigger once (and may well be illegal now under the Florida law you cited). They could still fire both barrels simultaneously, because the ATF allows for volley fire (firing of more than 1 bullet, by a single trigger press, as long as each bullet is fired from its own barrel).
    Below is the ATF clarification letter, as it relates to the differentiation of a Gatling Gun and a M-134 or GAU "Minigun", but it better illustrates my point..

    https://www.atf.gov/file/83561/download

    ATF and its predecessor agency, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), have historically held that the original, crank-operated Gatling Gun, and replicas thereof, are not automatic firearms or machineguns as defined. See Rev. Rul. 55-528, 1955-2 C.B. 482. The original Gatling Gun is a rapid-firing, hand-operated weapon. The rate of fire is regulated by the rapidity of the hand-cranking movement, manually controlled by the operator. It is not a "machine gun" as that term is defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b} because it is not a weapon that fires automatically.


    The Minigun is not a Gatling Gun. It was not produced under the 1862 - 1893 patents of the original Gatling Gun. While using a basic design concept of the Gatling Gun, the Minigun does not incorporate any of Gatling's original components and its feed mechanisms are entirely different. Critically, the Minigun shoots more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, as prescribed by 26 U.S.C. 5845(b}. See United States v. Fleischli, 305 F.3d 643, 655-656 (7th Cir. 2002). See also Staples v. United States, 511 U.S. 600,603 (1994) (automatic refers to a weapon that "once its trigger is depressed, the weapon will automatically continue to fire until its trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted"); GEORGE C. NONTE, JR., FIREARMS ENCYCLOPEDIA 13 (Harper & Rowe 1973) (the term "automatic" is defined to include "any firearm in which a single pull and continuous pressure upon the trigger (or other firing device) will produce rapid discharge of successive shots so long as ammunition remains in the magazine or feed device - in other words, a machinegun"}:WEBSTER'S II NEW RIVERSIDE-UNIVERSITY DICTIONARY (1988) (defining automatically as "acting or operating in a manner essentially independent of external influence or control"}; JOHN QUICK, PH.D., DICTIONARY OF WEAPONS AND MILITARY TERMS 40 (McGraw-Hill 1973) (defining automatic fire as "continuous fire from an automatic gun, lasting until pressure on the trigger is released").


    Last edited by StraitR; 02-16-2019 at 01:02 AM.

  2. #22
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    Sure, but none of which pertain to the firearm being discussed.



    Below is the ATF clarification letter, as it relates to the differentiation of a Gatling Gun and a M-134 or GAU "Minigun", but it better illustrates my point..

    https://www.atf.gov/file/83561/download
    Right. It would appear to me that the Tippman gun is effectively a miniaturized version of the 1892 Gatling design.

    Interestingly, I have been informed if one puts a motor (gas or electric) to operate the crank of an original crank-type Gatling, it becomes a machinegun. Because the motor (not a person) operates the gun and therefore rate of fire is limited by motor speed and gearing and not by the human operator. And thus is controlled by a switch. UNLESS some constructs it such that the switch fires only a single round when pressed and does not continuously operate the gun when held.
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 02-16-2019 at 01:37 AM.

  3. #23
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Right. It would appear to me that the Tippman gun is effectively a miniaturized version of the 1892 Gatling design.

    Interestingly, I have been informed if one puts a motor (gas or electric) to operate the crank of an original crank-type Gatling, it becomes a machinegun. Because the motor (not a person) operates the gun and therefore rate of fire is limited by motor speed and gearing and not by the human operator. And thus is controlled by a switch. UNLESS some constructs it such that the switch fires only a single round when pressed and does not continuously operate the gun when held.
    Exactly. Holding down the button (or flipping the switch) that drives the motor, which then fires more than one shot, would make it a machine gun. While it's often described as the first "machine gun", it's not defined as such under current NFA laws. They can also be had, in one configuration or another, on Gunbroker pretty regularly. They do bring typical Class III prices though.

    And because Gatling Guns are just cool, here is a video that slowly peels back the parts until the full cycle of operation is seen.


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    I'm already imagining a wheel/tire upgrade and a custom cast bronze frame with inlaid heroic scenes from the revolution. And bald eagles and flags and stuff. This is one gun I would actually like to see engraved.
    Because nothing says "One Upmanship" like having an engraved Gatling gun with spinner hubcaps as a BBQ gun.
    We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Also - They have a damn .357 Magnum Rolling Block - https://tippmannarmory.com/rolling-block-357-magnum/ - which I need like another hole in the head, but fuck it. I'm getting one.
    I have a hankering to get that and have it rechambered to 357max. Shame it has a 1:20 twist. With a 1:16 or 1:14, it would be great with 200gr cast bullets like the RCBS 35-200.

    ETA:
    They also have the same gun in 44mag and 45-70, as well as bare actions rated up to 52k psi. Think of the possibilities!
    https://tippmannarmory.com/shop-all/

    Chris
    Last edited by mtnbkr; 02-16-2019 at 08:25 AM.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Because nothing says "One Upmanship" like having an engraved Gatling gun with spinner hubcaps as a BBQ gun.
    Spinner hubcaps are for prohibited persons.

    The right wheels make a vehicle.
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    Not another dime.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Spinner hubcaps are for prohibited persons.
    HA! Good point. Damned auto correct! I meant to say "Because nothing says 'One Upmanship' like having an engraved Gatling gun with ivory hubcaps as a BBQ gun."

    (Yep. It was the auto correct- and that foul odor came from the dog. Time to change his dog food. Again!)
    We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    I'm going to snag one of these with my next bonus after they come out. Screw the 401(K), I'm going to enjoy myself now, dammit.

    I can't think of anything that says "Screw you, I'm from Murica!" better than this.

    I have no idea how the hell I'm going to get this in one of the safes, however. But my granddaughter will LOVE it.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Oh, and I'm going to have somebody build wooden wheels, a wooden gun carriage, and a proper caisson for it, to haul all the ammo and mags.

    Because it deserves it.

    Can't wait to bring it to my next training class and execute a failure to stop drill, either.

    "Two rounds to the body, and 31 rounds to the head on my command...."

  10. #30
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    The stock tire appears to be sourced from Harbor Freight:

    https://www.harborfreight.com/10-inc...ire-30900.html


    I'm thinking something like this:

    Name:  M10_prev02.jpg8a2a8f6a-0730-4b08-bf7b-edbea54f9fcfLarge.jpg
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Size:  13.7 KB

    https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models...trailer/421196

    Name:  trailer-mvpalouiville-2014-107w-2-.jpg
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    http://usautoindustryworldwartwo.com/americanbantam.htm

    ....

    After waaaay too much of a Saturday morning spent geeking out on wheels and tires (not the first time, not the last), this is probably the easy answer to get the best look:

    Ribbing on the wheel, WWII-style tread.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenda-Tire-...l/362193139547

    This is a little bit of a muscle car look, but also good tread.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-2-8-1-2...r/252222340461

    Or a little more of a tall-skinny look.
    https://www.amazon.com/Small-Tires-W.../dp/B010C13DGE


    Yes, I once could have been called a "wheel and tire professional," but I much prefer "tire nerd."
    Last edited by OlongJohnson; 02-16-2019 at 01:14 PM.
    .
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    Not another dime.

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