Full size gun I'd carry a .357, the ammo selection is better and widely available. The Raptor Engineering Mount I used to mount an RMR on my GP100 wouldn't hold zero so iron sights with a Crimson Trace would be my go-to.Originally Posted by awp_101
Full size gun I'd carry a .357, the ammo selection is better and widely available. The Raptor Engineering Mount I used to mount an RMR on my GP100 wouldn't hold zero so iron sights with a Crimson Trace would be my go-to.
My department has authorized 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP since the 1990's.
In 2009, out of a department that has roughly 180 people carrying guns, I was the only one occasionally carrying a 9mm (a Gen3 G17). The issue gun at the time was an M&P 40 (a great gun by the way). Every cool guy was carrying a 45 ACP 1911 variant.
I was dabbling because of my friendship with Mr. Todd Green, a recent class I had taken from Bill Go of Blackwater (one of the best instructors out there), and the fact that there was alway a surplus of 9mm ammo because the only reason we kept it around was for the MP5's that fewer and fewer officers were choosing to carry.
In 2018, same department, we have less than 15 people carrying 40 S&W, about 20 people carrying 45 ACP 1911's, and the balance carrying 9mm. We now issue the M&P 9.
Why? The Glock 40 S&W + WML fiasco of the mid and late 2000's had something to do with it...but additionally bullet design has improved, 9mm is cheaper, the guns hold more of it, and recoil is less. These factors along with the fact that every cool guy is using a 9mm Glock these days and cops seem to be smaller statured and more female lately is another.
I think that this is likely what has caused many departments to switch.
Don't get me wrong...I'm carrying a 9mm Glock as we speak, but the 40 S&W is still a great round depending on the gun and the person shooting it. My agency shot a decent amount of people and animals with the 165gr Federal Hydra-Shok and more recently the 165gr Federal HST and I can tell you from seeing the results that it does its job very well..including through auto glass and car doors.
I'm seriously debating talking a co-worker out of his frying-pan-finish mid-2000's Glock 35 so I can take advantage of the surplus of free 40 S&W we have lying around. Seems we are always short on 9 mm practice and duty ammo these days...
I already see the effects of more and more people switching to 9mm. Practically every time there is an ammo sale or looking for a certain self defense round the 9mm is always sold out.
I still love 40 because they use the same dies and bullets as 10mm. Living in the stix I've had more close encounters with wild animals than humans so I'd take a 40 or 10mm any day of the week over a 9mm.
Gun selection is important though, I never cared for any of the glocks I had in 40. I liked guns that were originally designed to be a 40.
I do wonder if, should we have another ammo drought, will the stocks of .40 still be sufficient to make it commonly available?
During the last few, we were still in that transition from .40 being the new hawtness back to 9mm, so there was a lot leftover from earlier production.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
I don't think 40 S&W is going anywhere anytime soon. There are still lots of guns out there owned by lots of people chambered for the caliber and lots of departments still using it.
The fact it is no longer the most popular round out there and less PD's are ordering it means it won't be the highest commodity when the next ammo shortage hits.
The good news is if you reload there is a ton of spent 40 S&W brass lying around ranges at any given time and it is a fairly easy round to reload.
Last edited by KevH; 03-29-2019 at 01:11 AM.
I’ve seen the availability of empty .40s greatly diminish in the past 15 years where I’ve had access to range brass. Used to be I’d fill up 11/2 3 gallon totes of 9 to a gallon of .40. Now, it’s more than 3 to 1. Local PD still uses .40, so best time to go is after quals.
My consumption of 9 vs. .40 is about 50/50, mostly due to USPSA.
I am a brass chicken - I embrace it. I shoot at a private range with multiple IDPA style bays - I estimate that 95% of brass is 9mm, 2% 40, 2% 45, and 1% other including the occasional 38 Special. Results of "survey" may be skewed as the 40 and 45 shooters (especially the 45 guys) may be picking up their brass.
Last edited by ranger; 03-29-2019 at 08:39 AM.
I'm going to danger that the decreased production of 40 S&W will mean there'll be none laying around for anyone to pick up.
There's still enough "dormant" 40S&W guns out there that if the panic buying starts again, what little 40S&W remains in the "just-in-time" logistics system will be eaten up by the first guy to walk in the store who hasn't shot his 40S&W in 3 years but thinks, "Better to have and not need it, than need it and not have it".
As @Joe in PNG was trying to point out, it's not like there's copious amounts of 40S&W overstock out there anymore. The ammunition market has already adjusted.
Last edited by TGS; 03-29-2019 at 09:43 AM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Prior to the last ammo panic I bought my ammunition at Walmart and if I got a box of a hundred I had a surplus. The ammo panic caught me extremely short.
I remember standing at the gun counter in the Walmart on Platte asking if they had any .40 S&W. The clerk said they had two boxes and the guy behind me went BALLISTIC because he thought I was going to take both of them.
Needless to say my buying habits have changed drastically.
I said all that to say this, what I find most surprising in this post panic world (especially given that the statists have made it explicitly clear that they're coming for our guns) is that people don't stock ammunition now when its plentiful and relatively cheap.
Even though 9mm is the priority and I only shoot my only .40 S&W handgun rarely I make a point of stocking ammunition for it and I will continue to stock for it until the next (inevitable) panic hits.
or standard capacity magazines....
As a survivor of both the decade of the Klinton gun ban and numerous ammo shortages, every time someone asks me why I have ridiculous numbers of magazines and mountains of ammo stored in various locations, I refer them to this to understand my view of the subject....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RhI1vERr-0
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