Pocket Carry

[41magfan]

I've been through a bunch of guns over the years, but the LCP is what I pocket carry now. I use one particular holster that fits every pocket in my wardrobe. I readily admit that's an exercise in compromise, but the consistency outweighs the other incremental factors. I have found the weight of the LCP to be tolerable in all conditions and the snag-free design has proven to me to be a necessity when a compromised draw is required. But, the real advantage to pocket carry performance (IMO) is establishing a proper firing grip before any movement in the presentation is initiated and most guns in most pockets won't allow for this in my experience. You can fudge on this factor at the range (standing upright and square to the target) but I think you're simply cheating yourself.

As to drills and practice, I make no distinction in what I'm carrying and just use my performance with the LCP as a comparative standard against my service pistol scores. I do a fair amount of WHO shooting, outer limits stuff like steel at 50-100 yards, and I emphasize head-shot drills at 5 yards and closer. When shooting established drills like The Test, 5x5, etc, I simply modify the COF to fit my limited magazine capacity. At least twice a year, I also use my LCP to shoot my agency's annual qualification COF which consist of 50 rds; position shooting back to 25 yards day time, and 15 yards at night under conditions of ambient light, flashlight and headlight/emergency lights. It's not a tough COF by any stretch, but it's representative of what's used in the LE community and I generally score in the high 90's and on a good day will shoot it "clean".

Anyhow, I posted all that to make the point that I think it's important to know what you can and can't do on demand, but that should apply to any gun - not just a pocket gun.

[JodyH]

In our local "concealed carry matches" we allow pocket and even ankle carry if you can prove to our satisfaction that you are able to do it safely.
Great way to test your carry methods from compromising start positions and with the added timer and peer pressure that competition brings.

example: Shooter begins facing uprange with both hands on the hood of our "range truck" (junk pickup we use as a prop). At the buzzer the shooter is required to raise the hood using both hands until it activates a double drop turn target that's about 5Y away directly downrange of the shooter. Turn, draw and engage the double drop turn before it disappears (from activation to "gone for good" is about 3 seconds). Then you moved on to a few more targets.
I designed the stage, then I shot it with my PM9 from my pocket and successfully neutralized the drop turn.

We've also required drawing and shooting while seated in the drivers seat of the truck.
Yea, sometimes it's awkward from a pocket, especially when you are being 100% in control of the muzzle because a sweep or a 180 violation is a DQ.

If I can do it rather quickly while being hyper cognizant of "safety is rule #1", then i'm pretty sure I can do it for real when the "rule of greater harm" says even if I shoot myself in an extremity it's probably better than the bad guy popping my melon.
Kind of like yea it'd suck to have to shoot the guy i'm wrestling with through my own hand that has a fistfull of his t-shirt, but that bullet needs to get into his chest before he can put his knife into mine.

[echo5charlie]

As a relative neophyte to pocket carry I hesitate to give full-on recommendations, and to be honest I do not think I can add much that hasn't already been said.

I will add, however, that pocket carry is NOT a "drop and go" endeavor, you need to practice your draw with every pair of pants/pocket you carry in. It's bad enough fist pumping a duty holster!

[Sal Picante]

In our local "concealed carry matches" we allow pocket and even ankle carry if you can prove to our satisfaction that you are able to do it safely.

That's a match I'll be sure to miss... Not because it is unsafe, but because I bet it is as slow as molasses!

[JodyH]

The PM9 is just so too heavy IMHO - 23oz IIRC when loaded...

Just finished weighing them:
Kahr PM9 = 19oz. loaded with 7 rounds of 115gr.
Glock 42 = 16oz. loaded with 7 rounds of 99gr.
S&W M&P 340 = 16oz. loaded with 5 rounds of 158gr.

[JodyH]

That's a match I'll be sure to miss... Not because it is unsafe, but because I bet it is as slow as molasses!

Just pulled up one of our last matches on my tablet (we score time/plus w/Practiscore).
My squad had 11 shooters.
7 stages took a total of 109 minutes for the entire match.
That's an average of 15.6 minutes per stage.
That averages out to 1.5 minutes per shooter, per stage.
I was top shooter in our squad with a total raw time of 108 seconds for the match (average of 26 seconds of shooting time per stage).

We don't fuck around at our matches.

[MGW]

Just finished weighing them:
Kahr PM9 = 19oz. loaded with 7 rounds of 115gr.
Glock 42 = 16oz. loaded with 7 rounds of 99gr.
S&W M&P 340 = 16oz. loaded with 5 rounds of 158gr.

That's good info JodyH. If you get a chance, could you post up some picture comparisons of those three? I owned a 42 at one time but ditched it and focused on the J frame. I know pictures don't tell the entire story but it would be a good reference point.

[spinmove_]

Here’s a random pic that I found not too long ago that’s somewhat germane to your request.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JodyH]

That's good info JodyH. If you get a chance, could you post up some picture comparisons of those three? I owned a 42 at one time but ditched it and focused on the J frame. I know pictures don't tell the entire story but it would be a good reference point.

PM9 and 340 only real difference is the 340 is stretched out more lengthwise and has more curves.
Attachment 35290

42 and PM9, PM9 is about 1/4" shorter lengthwise, same height and width.
Attachment 35291

Closeup of the difference.
Attachment 35292

[MGW]

This always gets me... How much and what to practice with a pocket gun?

I usually just do the Claude W. standards (5 rounds test ) or the "5rds at 10 yards done 3 times" test.

The pocket draw and etc. is something I just work on at home... I've gotten down to a 1.5ish pocket draw, with the hand starting near the pocket, but going faster is tougher.

I have a copy of Claude's snubby training program DVD. I haven't reviewed it in a while but he has a lot of really good drills on there. Most of them would be applicable to any pocket gun even though he is specifically addressing small revolvers.

Honestly, I don't have much experience with any other type of pocket pistol. I tried the 26 (giant fail) and the 42. The 42 isn't bad but still a little too big for the way I use it. The mouse guns P&S podcast you were on was really good. Lots of really great information. It got me to thinking about other options. At the end of the day though, mouse guns need to fit the concept of operation for the person that is using it. The choice of pistol is going to be a very personal decision.