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Thread: new carry revolver

  1. #1
    Member Moonshot's Avatar
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    new carry revolver

    Looking for some advise on a revolver purchase, but first - a little background.

    I have posted some of these questions before, but for different reasons, and lack of funds have prevented me from taking any action. However, I now have both the funds and a good reason to move forward.

    I currently carry a G26 IWB as a primary (and usually only) gun. I will occasionally carry a 642 no lock as a second gun (on my ankle and tuned by Denny Reichard, but more to be given to my wife or daughters in an emergency or for a secure way to carry a spare gun when I travel on business throughout my state).

    I am not in LE.

    My 642 is loaded with Federal 148gr WCs. They shoot to my sights with little recoil, offer good penetration, and are easy for my wife and daughters to use as well.

    I have little confidence in any HP consistently opening up when fired through barriers from a 2” barrel, the recoil from a +P out of an air weight slows down my followup times and/or opens up my groups, and DocGKR has stated that a HP which fails to open up causes less wounding than a full WC. This has lead me to move away from my original 135gr +P SBGDs and start carrying the WCs.

    However, some recent injuries along with trying to read the political tea leaves have caused me to consider a scenario where I could not use a semi-auto handgun. Either I no longer have the physical strength to properly and safely manipulate one (load mags, rack slide, control recoil) or perhaps new laws will remove from consideration any semi-auto action.

    Should either of these scenarios occur, I would rather have my preferred alternative in place and ready to carry rather than begin the process of looking for, and possibly not finding what I want.

    This new revolver would be carried in a belt holster (IWB or OWB) and would replace my G26. I would then likely be more religious about carrying my 642 as a 2nd gun.

    I could carry another 642. I already have one that has also been tuned by Renny Reichard, but while I am confident in the WCs on a 2nd gun, I would prefer my primary have something with a little more authority. One of my concerns is shooting through auto glass. While I do not envision having to shoot from the outside of a car in, I can envision being forced off the road and having to shoot from the inside out. A heavy bonded JHP makes more sense here than a soft lead WC. Even if the JHP doesn’t open up, it should still penetrate better (or so I understand it).

    With all this in mind, I am looking at a revolver with one or two features that my 642 doesn’t have - more weight and/or more barrel.

    More weight would dampen the recoil of a +P and offer faster follow up shots (putting me where I am now with my 642 and WCs), and more barrel would help the HP to reach high enough velocity to encourage expansion.

    A 6th round would be a plus, but to go this route I would either need a much heavier platform (GP100 weight) or go with one of the newer models (Kimber or Colt). The Ruger 3” GP100 interests me, but it’s a lot of weight to start EDC, while the newer options are just that - new. I do not want to be a beta tester and both companies do not exactly have a stellar reputation for QC.

    No one has a stellar QC reputation anymore, but at least Ruger and Smith have options out there that have been fielded for a long time.

    For these reasons I am leaning towards a no lock 640 Pro, a 2” DAO SP101, a 3” SP101 converted to DAO, or an old (like 30 years old) 3” adjustable sight S&W Mod 60 (again converted to DAO).

    The 2” 640 Pro and the 2” SP offer easier carry and enough weight to dampen the +P 38s I would start loading in the gun. I have no intention of loading them with magnums.

    The 3” SP offers weight and extra barrel, but would be more expensive (I would need to send it out to bob the hammer and DAO it), and I suspect the longer barrel will be a little harder to carry (especially IWB).

    The 3” M60 is not +P rated and would be the most expensive option (the initial purchase price plus having Denny Reichard work on it - well worth it but still expensive). My biggest concern with the M60 are the adjustable sights and the lack of +P rating. I prefer fixed sights on this kind of gun and I would practice with it frequently. I practice with ammo similar to what I carry.

    I am also not sure if the extra inch offers enough velocity boost to really enable HP expansion. The negatives of a longer barrel (harder to carry IWB and more barrel for an assailant to grab) may be more significant than the slight increase in ammo performance that an extra inch provides.

    The Ruger LCR series has some nice features, especially the trigger, but there is something about the LCR that I don’t like. I can’t really articulate what it is, but there is something about them I don’t like.

    A 9mm revolver has occurred to me. Both the LCR and the SP101 can be had in 9mm. I would think the performance of the 9mm would be superior to a +P .38, but I have heard of frequent extraction issues, and if the moon clips bend the gun can be rendered useless. Also, any spare ammo carried in moon clips just looks flimsy and easily dislodged. I suspect 9mm is not the way to go in a wheel gun.

    Anything with an internal lock is out. A used pre-lock K-frame or S-series Ruger is likely to be way too expensive, even before I DAO it.

    Any suggestions on my thought process or on the options I am considering (or other options I hadn't considered) will be appreciated.
    Last edited by Moonshot; 02-13-2019 at 12:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    There is a lot to unpack there. Rather than point-by-point, I’ll just tell you what I’ve ended up with, and why. As an aside, I have a 4" model 64 "NY-1" (factory DAO, bead blast finish made for the NYPD back in the revolver days) and you would not dislike that gun.

    One way to handle going to a revolver-centric EDC is the @Mike Pipes way: move through the world literally brimming with J-frames. There is something to be said for that level of specialization; it’s way less efficient than a G26, but much of life’s problems that could be solved *at all* with a handgun could be solved with 3 customized j-frames.

    That said, I’m slowly moving away from 2" (1 7/8") j-frames, and on to other options. I have 2 x 3" heavy barrel j-frames that I like: a 36-1 heavy barrel modified to DAO, and a 36-6 "target" that I fell into that I bought because, another 3"; better sights; cooler than hell. As I collect 3" guns, I realize that I don’t really need the 2" all-steel guns. The last 2" I have is the 642, because of weight.

    Then we have the other brands you mention as unvetted: Kimber and Colt. I have a 3" k6s. It’s now over 1k rounds, and so far, so good. There do seem to have been some serious issues with the original firing pin design and dry-firing, but I have been told directly by Kimber CS that all the current production K6s come with an improved firing pin. I like that gun a lot; roughly 3" SP101 weight and size, but better ergos, sights, and trigger... plus the 6th round. Recommended, at this point, at least by me. It’s a contender, if my state goes 10-round. Hell, it’s a contender now, because, better than j-frame capability in a j-frame lifestyle. (Sidebar: the mid-level .357s, eg. Remington golden sabre 125, are very doable in that gun. Not much different felt recoil than the hottest 158 .38 special loads—just a bit more muzzle flip, FWIW. I do not care for full power .357s in these guns, myself)

    Now, on to Colt. I recently bought the night Cobra, because it was there. This gun exudes build quality. The only real complaint on the first Cobras was that the finish seemed down budget, and this DLC black fixes both the niggle, and the down budget part

    I don’t have enough rounds through it to call it truly "vetted," but I’m several hundred rounds of 158 and 130 ball, and 100+ rounds of various +P loads with no issues. I see this one taking over as main squeeze once it can get accessorized (AIWB holsters are in short supply; it goes to and from the range in my old MacEvoy ‘summer special’ type IWB rig I have for an SP101–works great, but I’m not a behind the hip guy at this point, so it’s mostly grounded for now).

    I really like the night cobra. Others who would know have said nice things about this particular version, including dagga boy, Craig D, et al.

    Beyond that, one option that I’d invite you to consider—assuming you have the eyesight for the stock sights—is one of the DAO model 64s that regularly appear at places like J&G sales. Less than 400 bills will get you one in excellent shape. Have it worked on by Denny, or don’t; either way, it’s still a solid option if one simply must have a revolver for carry. These are, for all practical purposes only available in 4" barrels. The 3" guns are rare, and command very aggressive prices. The good news is that 4" is no harder to carry IWB/AIWB than 3". Both those lengths are typically better than 2" inside the waistband, because they are more stable, and put more mass below the beltline. May sound counter intuitive, but it’s true in my experience. My 4" Denny R-tuned NY-1 disappears in a JMCK "George", so long as I have very compact grips on it at the time.

    So, there it is, in my experience. If I was looking at one "carry gun" off the rack, from scratch, it might be the night Cobra. With a bit more commitment, 2 surplus NY-1s (or a clean NY-1 with a tune by Denny) could work. Not hypothetical on my end, as that’s pretty much where I ended up.

    I’m keeping an eye on the new king cobra too, because, 3" tube and mid-range .357, but we are a ways away from solid user reports at this time.

    All the above is just my opionion. I’m one of the last true wheelie holdouts around though, for a variety of reasons. Again, FWIW.

    ETA: Denny R NY-1...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Totem Polar; 02-13-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  3. #3
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    If I were going to all revolver carry, I’d find a good 3” or 4” K Frame S&W. RB or SB as you prefer (I tend to prefer RB on 3” and shorter, SB on 4” guns). I’d carry an Airweight J Frame on my off side as a “New York Reload.”

    They can be found with a little time and patience, particularly the 4” guns.

    Here’s a 3” currently listed on GB:

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/797050531
    Semper Paratus,

    Steve

  4. #4
    Member Moonshot's Avatar
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    Do I need to worry about these old pre-lock K and J frame guns in .38 special only not being +P rated? A steady diet of +P is too expensive, but I try and train as I carry, and I see a relatively high round count of hot standard pressure or +P .38s through whatever I buy.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshot View Post
    Do I need to worry about these old pre-lock K and J frame guns in .38 special only not being +P rated? A steady diet of +P is too expensive, but I try and train as I carry, and I see a relatively high round count of hot standard pressure or +P .38s through whatever I buy.
    If you get a K frame .38 Special that has a model number - i.e., 10 or 15 or 64 or 67 - it's good for +P. There are three decades' worth of them manufactured prior to the lock's appearance.

  6. #6
    Member L-2's Avatar
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    There's a lot of considerations in the 1st post and worry over potential future issues.

    -the Glock 26 and S&W 642 are good guns to already own. I often carry one or both of these guns. I do have several other semis and revolvers from which to choose.

    -ammo selection is completely up-to-you regarding a wadcutter vs. JHP. From DocGKR's 2012 post,

    "Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers."

    -Whether a semi-auto handgun will somehow become illegal to use may be something for which to plan; I don't know where that will specifically be whether that'll be NJ, WA, CO, or some other state. I do understand if a semi-auto is just beyond the owner's physical capabilities, however.

    -Not having enough money is something to plan. Buying firearms for any/every situation is futile as it'll always be a compromise and a person can only plan so far. Is a handgun or firearm even going to be the best alternative or answer?

    -At one point the concern is shooting through auto-glass, from the inside to outside; yet another concern is someone grabbing a barrel which is longer than the 642's 1 7/8".

    -I'll try to summarize the wants in a revolver for the 1st post, which doesn't seem to exist:
    --affordable to the OP. (often, there are added costs associated with physical restrictions/handicaps. It's just the way it is.)
    --.38 Special probably, but not .357 Magnum.
    --heavier than a 642, probably with a 3" barrel, minimum.
    --can't be a new brand/model.
    --for some reason it has to be DAO or converted to be DAO (unknown as to why).

    -------------------
    I'm nobody's salesperson and I have no personal interest as to what somebody buys or carries. I do find it interesting to read what folks do decide and disclose what the use/carry.

  7. #7
    J&G has Model 10s for $400.
    Here are Model 67s for $550.
    https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperst....cfm/ID/208960

    Keep your eye open for the next wave of police tradein models 64 or 65 if you want stainless fixed sights.
    People are sinking a lot of money into these to get to the current fad of a roundbutt 3" but you might be happy with a 4" squarebutt.

    Don't forget a Ruger Speed Six of about the same size and very sturdy.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  8. #8
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    I don't think any of the j frames or small 5 shot revolvers are a significant improvement over your 642. Small grip, 5 rounds, meh sights, although the 640 pro has great sights.

    I don't see j frames as an edc gun (for me). I don't shoot them as well as k frames and they have less ammo. They're an emergency backup or a spare.

    I really think you'd see an improvement with a used k frame.

    My m64 was $380 last year and my m19 was $350 but that was a rare find. My wife's 2" nickle M15 was $600 which was more than I wanted to spend but I'm glad I got it. Incredible trigger and as accurate as any full sized gun I own. I can not shoot any j frame near as accurate, as fast, or reload as efficiently.

    I'd have zero qualms carrying it with 130 grain +p rangers or golden sabers.
    This was 25 yards offhand with those bonded rangers.
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    This gun is 30oz unloaded and shoots very well.
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    I think if you found a m64/m65 for $400 you'd have exactly what you want. Even a 2" m10/M15 would be better imo.

  9. #9
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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  10. #10
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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