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Thread: PX4 D vs. 92 D Internals

  1. #1
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    PX4 D vs. 92 D Internals

    I've got three PX4 full-size versions, an F converted to G, a G, and a D. I'm satisfied with the two TDA versions, both have 12 lb hammer springs and are otherwise stock and I'm fine with that. The D is pretty nice too, but I've been wondering if it can be made as nice as a 92D. I understand that the DAO 92 has fewer internal parts than the TDA version since the parts needed for single action are left out. Is this the case with the PX4 D as well? (I'm not a moron, just someone who's well aware that my gunsmithing and mechanical skills are, ah, minimal. ) I'm seriously thinking about sending the PX4 D to LTT to see what Langdon could do with it.
    Last edited by revchuck38; 02-10-2019 at 08:34 PM.

  2. #2

    Type D

    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    I've got three PX4 full-size versions, an F converted to G, a G, and a D. I'm satisfied with the two TDA versions, both have 12 lb hammer springs and are otherwise stock and I'm fine with that. The D is pretty nice too, but I've been wondering if it can be made as nice as a 92D. I understand that the DAO 92 has fewer internal parts than the TDA version since the parts needed for single action are left out. Is this the case with the PX4 D as well? (I'm not a moron, just someone who's well aware that my gunsmithing and mechanical skills are, ah, minimal. ) I'm seriously thinking about sending the PX4 D to LTT to see what Langdon could do with it.
    The PX4 Storm type D has less parts, in that it does not have a sear, sear drift pin, sear spring or the associated notches on the hammer. It also does not have a hammer drop lever, it has a different spacer and inside of the slide has less moving parts for lack of a decocker mechanism, as I'm sure you know. The lack of a sear is what will make the difference in the smoothness of your action.

    This can also add to the smoothness, as there is no resistance passing a half cock notch as you pull your double action.

    To make your action smoother or lighter, the first step would be a reduced power hammer spring. If that is not enough, then it is possible that sending it to Langdon Tactical that he could polish the trigger bar connections to the hammer and how the trigger bar slides along the frame. He might also polish the hammer pivot pin and sides of the hammer contact.

    I would suggest starting with a lighter hammer spring to see how that works. If you wanted to test that, you could try one of your 12# springs from your other PX4s and put it into the type D just to see what it does to it.
    Last edited by PX4 Storm Tracker; 02-11-2019 at 10:20 AM.

  3. #3
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    I believe that the 92D has a single-piece firing pin, where the other Beretta 92s have a 2-piece firing pin (that tidbit may be apropos of nothing, though, given the thrust of your query...just passing on info, with the caveat that I've never detail-stripped mine to the point of verification on this-I wimped out when it came to replacing my firing pin spring with a new WC chrome silicon one {hey, what wasn't broken doesn't need to be fixed, right?}...

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 02-11-2019 at 11:11 AM.

  4. #4

    Firing pin

    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    I believe that the 92D has a single-piece firing pin, where the other Beretta 92s have a 2-piece firing pin (that tidbit may be apropos of nothing, though, given the thrust of your query...just passing on info, with the caveat that I've never detail-stripped mine to the point of verification on this-I wimped out when it came to replacing my firing pin spring with a new WC chrome silicon one {hey, what wasn't broken doesn't need to be fixed, right?}...

    Best, Jon
    That is an excellent point. With a PX4 Storm type C or type D there is a one piece firing pin, as well. The two piece firing pin is only in place where there is a decocker that will pivot the firing pin plunger out of the way. This is unnecessary with a type D or C.

    That is one more contributing factor to the potential of a type D having the smoothest double action possible of any of the PX4s.
    Last edited by PX4 Storm Tracker; 02-11-2019 at 12:29 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    I believe that the 92D has a single-piece firing pin, where the other Beretta 92s have a 2-piece firing pin (that tidbit may be apropos of nothing, though, given the thrust of your query...just passing on info, with the caveat that I've never detail-stripped mine to the point of verification on this-I wimped out when it came to replacing my firing pin spring with a new WC chrome silicon one {hey, what wasn't broken doesn't need to be fixed, right?}...

    Best, Jon
    .


    Jon: You are correct. The 92D has a single-piece firing pin--and I detailed stripped mine to find out. By the way, it turned out to be much easier than detail stripping a FS slide with all those microscopic pins and springs, and since I'm all thumbs if I could detail strip it anyone can.

  6. #6
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    .


    Jon: You are correct. The 92D has a single-piece firing pin--and I detailed stripped mine to find out. By the way, it turned out to be much easier than detail stripping a FS slide with all those microscopic pins and springs, and since I'm all thumbs if I could detail strip it anyone can.
    It's next on my list; while no issues have ever arisen with it, it's probably time to clean the firing pin and firing pin channel. I spoke with BUSA today, and I will need to remove the extractor pin and extractor-I was hoping I'd just have to remove the firing pin block and spring, but like you said, it looks to be pretty straightforward. Wilson Combat gave me a chrome silicon firing pin spring, but the BUSA said said they've never heard of the OEM one failing, but as long as I was in there, I might as well replace it with a new one.

    Game plan is to remove the extractor first, and then the firing pin block. I've got the right punches, etc., and I'll re-stake the extractor pin after I replace it.

    If tomorrow's another snow day, I'll probably do it then.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 02-11-2019 at 09:22 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PX4 Storm Tracker View Post
    The PX4 Storm type D has less parts, in that it does not have a sear, sear drift pin, sear spring or the associated notches on the hammer. It also does not have a hammer drop lever, it has a different spacer and inside of the slide has less moving parts for lack of a decocker mechanism, as I'm sure you know. The lack of a sear is what will make the difference in the smoothness of your action.

    This can also add to the smoothness, as there is no resistance passing a half cock notch as you pull your double action.

    To make your action smoother or lighter, the first step would be a reduced power hammer spring. If that is not enough, then it is possible that sending it to Langdon Tactical that he could polish the trigger bar connections to the hammer and how the trigger bar slides along the frame. He might also polish the hammer pivot pin and sides of the hammer contact.

    I would suggest starting with a lighter hammer spring to see how that works. If you wanted to test that, you could try one of your 12# springs from your other PX4s and put it into the type D just to see what it does to it.
    Thanks! I had earlier replaced the original hammer spring with a 12 lb. version and it was pretty nice. Then I bought the G model from another forum member and it came with an 11 lb. spring; I pulled the 12 lb. one from the D and installed it in the G so both TDA guns would be as similar as possible and stuck the original spring back in the D. Which means I have an 11 lb. spring sitting around doing nothing. Tomorow's range trip should be fun!

  8. #8
    The PX4 Compact Carry ships with, and runs the Cougar D spring flawlessly, which means in a DAO PX4, you can probably get away with Ernest Langdon's 11# CS spring he developed for the DA/SA PX4s pretty safely. The lack of the segmented firing pin means there's less parasitic loss in the energy transfer from the hammer to the firing ping then the standard DA/SA action.

    Hell, I run EL's 11#CS spring in my PX4CC carry gun and have yet to see any issues with it, so that spring in a DAO gun should be fine. If someone who knows their stuff polishes the right bits of the fire control, that'd be one kick ass setup in the DAO world.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    It's next on my list; while no issues have ever arisen with it, it's probably time to clean the firing pin and firing pin channel. I spoke with BUSA today, and I will need to remove the extractor pin and extractor-I was hoping I'd just have to remove the firing pin block and spring, but like you said, it looks to be pretty straightforward. Wilson Combat gave me a chrome silicon firing pin spring, but the BUSA said said they've never heard of the OEM one failing, but as long as I was in there, I might as well replace it with a new one.

    Game plan is to remove the extractor first, and then the firing pin block. I've got the right punches, etc., and I'll re-stake the extractor pin after I replace it.

    If tomorrow's another snow day, I'll probably do it then.

    Best, Jon
    Good luck. I've found that removing the extractor in FS and G models and cleaning the extractor and channel is a good thing in itself--the only failures to operate I've had in Beretta 92's came from too-dirty extractors.

    When reassembling, remember to first install the firing pin and the firing pin block and only then put the extractor back in. The firing pin has a cut-out that allows the extractor to fit but you need to have the firing pin locked in place for the extractor to fit.

  10. #10
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    Good luck. I've found that removing the extractor in FS and G models and cleaning the extractor and channel is a good thing in itself--the only failures to operate I've had in Beretta 92's came from too-dirty extractors.

    When reassembling, remember to first install the firing pin and the firing pin block and only then put the extractor back in. The firing pin has a cut-out that allows the extractor to fit but you need to have the firing pin locked in place for the extractor to fit.
    Done-and thanks for the encouragement and guidance. Pretty straightforward, as you said. I annually remove, clean and re-spring my extractor (the re-springing part is as necessary, which is really probably never, but since Wilson Combat provided me with 2 flavors of their chrome silicon extractor springs {standard and +), last year I removed my OEM Beretta one for the heck of it, and used the standard weight Wilson Combat one-its running just fine).

    The firing pin block removal was very straightforward-just punch out the retaining roll pin with a 1/16th" roll pin punch, push down from the top (with a thumb on the rear of the firing pin to preclude it from launching into orbit), and it falls out (there's a small coil spring that tensions it, I removed it as well) and then pulled out the firing pin and firing pin spring (which was a little stubborn, and a Q-Tip was used to pull it out).

    All components were de-grunged, cleaned, and lightly lubed with Dri-Slide, a molybdenum disulfate dry film lubrication solution suspended in a liquid carrier-the liquid carrier solution evaporates, and you have an evenly deposited a dry lubricant film that lubricates without serving as a GSR magnet.

    There really wasn't all that much accumulated on the firing pin, extractor and locking block, or in the firing pin, firing pin block and extractor chambers. It was worthwhile going in, but probably annually is sufficient for the extractor, and every couple of years for the firing pin/firing pin block. But since it's so easy on the D model, I'll probably just do the full meal deal annually.

    Despite that the OEM firing pin spring was running fine, since Wilson Combat had also graciously provided me with one of their chrome silicon firing pin springs, I replaced the OEM one with it (the Tech at BUSA that I spoke with yesterday said that he'd personally never seen or heard of an OEM firing pin spring breaking or losing tensility, but since I was already in there, I might as well just replace the original spring with a new one...). (And yes, I'm keeping the OEM one, just in case...).

    After reassembling everything, the extractor retaining pin needs to be re-staked (well, actually, it's the metal on the slide surrounding the extractor pin's hole that needs to be re-staked). Not much metal is required to be moved to accomplish this, and some 92 users have reported that the pin stays in place without re-staking, but I personally always do it. using a couple of hammer taps to a judiciously-placed small flat screwdriver blade, and then retouching with a dab of Birchwood Casey Black paint.

    Everytime I go into my Beretta 92, I'm reminded of the quality of the design and manufacturing that went into it. For example, when you re-insert the firing pin locking block and its spring, the firing pin nicely locks the assembly into place, making it easy to re-insert the roll pin used to secure it-no "three-handed drill" necessary (as compared to, say, replacing the extractor and firing pin stop on a 1911, especially a Series 80 firing pin safety on a 1911...). These are simply magnificently designed and manufactured pistols, and ones that we can thoroughly appreciate and use as designed. While my appreciation is more on the pragmatic side, it's is fun participating in the recent 92 Series Renaissance that seems to be occurring, and concurrently appreciating how Bill Wilson, Ernest Langdon and others are applying their efforts to tangibly improve the platform.

    I'll concurrently post this info on my 92D Updates thread as well, so followers of that can have things in a one thread package.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 02-12-2019 at 03:21 PM.

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