DA/SA vs SFA vs ... -- 2019 Edition

[JTQ]

Regarding C&L guns like the 1911 or BHP, they are similar in that every trigger press is the same. But they have safeties and we use them because the hammer is fully cocked. The trigger just releases the hammer. It's funny you mention that because I am uncomfortable with the fully tensions striker guns on the market. I carry/shoot Glocks almost exclusively (all with factory triggers), and I just ordered an APX which from my research is only partially cocked.

I believe the folks banging on slides found, if you could defeat the firing pin block, the partially cocked Glock had enough energy to fire a round.

[Alpha Sierra]

But I don't believe DA/SA makes anyone safer than SFA or SA guns. A shooter who doesn't keep the finger off the trigger can have an ND with any style of trigger mechanism.

No one said a DA/SA trigger is a guarantee against an ND. It's another layer of safety, not a guarantee of safety.

It's more difficult to ND a heavier trigger with longer travel than one that is lighter with a shorter travel. One can believe whatever one wants, but physics will not be denied.

[GJM]

No one said a DA/SA trigger is a guarantee against an ND. It's another layer of safety, not a guarantee of safety.

It's more difficult to ND a heavier trigger with longer travel than one that is lighter with a shorter travel. One can believe whatever one wants, but physics will not be denied.

When I reviewed the substantial number of negligent discharges at Front Sight, which they list on their website, the incidents were evenly distributed between 1911, striker and DA/SA pistols. I initially found this surprising given how numerous striker pistols are, but then realized what is common to negligent discharges is operator error not pistol design. That heavy trigger on the DA is very nice until you put six pounds of pressure on what you expect is a ten pound DA trigger, and it really was in SA. Or, when you holster a DA/SA in SA with your finger on the trigger.

It is human nature to believe whatever you carry is best/safest/whatever.

[Sal Picante]

Again - carry/shoot whatever you want. But I don't believe DA/SA makes anyone safer than SFA or SA guns. A shooter who doesn't keep the finger off the trigger can have an ND with any style of trigger mechanism.

Now that its all settled, can we start drinking?

[Poe Performance]

When I reviewed the substantial number of negligent discharges at Front Sight, which they list on their website, the incidents were evenly distributed between 1911, striker and DA/SA pistols. I initially found this surprising given how numerous striker pistols are, but then realized what is common to negligent discharges is operator error not pistol design. That heavy trigger on the DA is very nice until you put six pounds of pressure on what you expect is a ten pound DA trigger, and it really was in SA. Or, when you holster a DA/SA in SA with your finger on the trigger.

It is human nature to believe whatever you carry is best/safest/whatever.

You make some great points I hadn't considered with DA/SA. I shoot strikers better than DA/SA even after significant training time with Sigs and HK hammer guns. Putting rounds on target is my priority, impressing die hard DA/SA or striker guys is not.

[GJM]

Here is how I look at the risk. A striker is never tolerant of poor finger discipline. A 1911 or DA/SA may or may not be more tolerant of poor trigger finger discipline depending upon the condition of the 1911 thumb safety and DA/SA hammer position. In some instances the 1911 thumb safety and DA hammer will prevent problems and in some instances the thumb safety/DA will cause problems when someone thinks they are in a different position. I am not sure whether the thumb safety and DA hammer are a net safety plus or minus.

[perlslacker]

Not really, because those are limited editions. Because they're marketed to enthusiasts with a built in audience, they'll sell all of those pistols that they make but they also won't make a whole lot of those guns. What Beretta really needs is for people to buy the APX because they actually make money when you buy an APX.

I didn't say they were trying to make money off LTT Elites. I said they were trying to boost Beretta's mind share with LTT Elites, which then would inspire people to buy APX pistols.

While we're talking conspiracy theories, I half believe that the famous "the PX4 Compact might be my Glock 19" thread was the result of someone betting Ernie Langdon that he couldn't make the PX4 popular.

[GJM]

I didn't say they were trying to make money off LTT Elites. I said they were trying to boost Beretta's mind share with LTT Elites, which then would inspire people to buy APX pistols.

While we're talking conspiracy theories, I half believe that the famous "the PX4 Compact might be my Glock 19" thread was the result of someone betting Ernie Langdon that he couldn't make the PX4 popular.

That thread has gone so long, that it is possible he may have been Ernie when it started, but he is most definitely Ernest now.

[perlslacker]

That thread has gone so long, that it is possible he may have been Ernie when it started, but he is most definitely Ernest now.

I tried really hard to make an Oscar Wilde joke in response to this but I just don't have it in me right now.

[BehindBlueI's]

No one said a DA/SA trigger is a guarantee against an ND. It's another layer of safety, not a guarantee of safety.

It's more difficult to ND a heavier trigger with longer travel than one that is lighter with a shorter travel. One can believe whatever one wants, but physics will not be denied.

This. A brief repost of mine from a lengthier thread on the topic ref: startle response and trigger checks:

Force Science Institute tested it with a P226, and noted there was a difference. In about 6 per cent of cases, enough trigger pressure was registered to have fired the pistol had it been uncocked (that is, mechanically set for an initial double-action trigger pull). In about 20 per cent of cases, the pressure was sufficient to have fired the gun had it been cocked (as with secondary rounds). The gun used had a 12-pound double-action trigger pull and a 5-pound pull, single-action.

So there is a measurable extra layer of safety. It's not foolproof, but I don't think anyone claims it is.

I also don't find a ton of value in data on ADs on the range. Most aren't on the range. My former office got roughly 100 unintended discharges resulting in injury or death coming through each year. Zero were on a range, despite us having a multitude of indoor ranges and an outdoor range in our jurisdiction. A suicide or two, but nobody shot themselves in the junk or hand. I suspect this is largely due to the "no drawing from the holster" rule most of them have. Anyway, the hardware solution that would prevent more of them then anything is a magazine disconnect. The need to pull the trigger to break down the gun, combined with sloppy clearing procedures, accounts for a large portion of self-inflicted injuries (mostly to the off hand) and the occasional shooting of someone else. Unsafe storage allowing guns to fall into the hands of small children makes up a surprisingly large number as well. We'd cut over half of the incidents in my county if those two things went to zero.