DA/SA vs SFA vs ... -- 2019 Edition

[JTQ]

My own belief is that the availability of kydex holsters, molded to a particular model pistol with a covered trigger guard has done more to improve safety than any hammer, gadget, etc. If we could get people to use a proper holster, and not cover themselves with their muzzle when they draw and holster, we could probably go a long way to reduce gun accidents.

I think this is a good point.

[jwperry]

SO, this is how SIG should bring the P250 back as a single stack fully modular gun, super slim and light, with decent grip, standard SIG dovetails. I wouldn’t mind if they would develop the SIGPRO in similar style as well, or at least add a compact and sub to that series.

They had that, kinda, in the P290. I have small hands and I felt like I was crushing the trigger into my palm trying to get it to fire. If they pushed the hammer release a little further forward, it wouldn't have been too bad of a gun...

[breakingtime91]

I give up. No one wants to really think it through and instead go all out to rationalize their pov.

How so? I understand what you are saying but I think it is different. If not form an argument or point and we can debate it? If you are going to get offended that someone else has a different opinion just say that and there is no need for the conversation to go past that. We all believe we know the right way, it isn't a foreign concept. In academia bias is rampant as you try to prove your concept or point, very much the same when it comes to topics about guns. If you have a DA/SA gun and carry it you are way more liable to defend it then if you are an unbiased party looking strictly at facts.

I should also disclose I have seen marines, with years of combat experience, forget to send the bolt home after a reload or put their gun of safe. Shit happens and acting like it doesn't is just horse shit.

[Clusterfrack]

So true.

I thumb my CZs into the holster for carry and competition. At matches, I'm the only one I've seen do it. The main reason I do it is to prevent accidentally holstering a cocked gun with a 2# SA trigger. This is especially a concern when practicing alone, and doing a lot of holstering.

The only thing I am willing to say with 100 percent certainty is nobody ever wins an internet argument.

When you look at aircraft crashes, a very high percentage, as in 80 percent or more, come from pilot error, and the balance come from mechanical causes. Generally there is an accident chain, with more than one mistake required to result in an accident.

In flying, we literally rely on the machine working to keep us in the air. In shooting, we can stop at any moment, so my guess is shooter error accounts for an even higher percentage of accidents than in flying. We have had discussion on the theoretical safety of various platforms, but my belief is that shooter behavior is where most of the opportunity is to prevent accidents. Accidents generally require more than one error, with a rule 2 violation one of them, to result in a bullet injuring someone.

One of the things I love about hammer guns, is being able to place my thumb on the hammer when holstering. However, observing shooters at USPSA matches, I can’t remember the last time I saw a shooter holster a DA/SA, with a thumb on their hammer after the make ready command. Some would say that just may be gamers. Consider that Mike Pannone is considered one of the top trainers, with a specialty for concealed carry, and a long association with the P07 as his EDC gun. Watch this video, and he neither places his thumb on the hammer when holstering, or mentions it as a desired technique.



Aside from me, and the two dozen posters on PF that carry a DA/SA for EDC, wonder what the percentage of the greater universe of DA/SA owners knows to thumb their hammer, and actually does it? My own belief is that the availability of kydex holsters, molded to a particular model pistol with a covered trigger guard has done more to improve safety than any hammer, gadget, etc. If we could get people to use a proper holster, and not cover themselves with their muzzle when they draw and holster, we could probably go a long way to reduce gun accidents.

[breakingtime91]

So true.

I thumb my CZs into the holster for carry and competition. At matches, I'm the only one I've seen do it. The main reason I do it is to prevent accidentally holstering a cocked gun with a 2# SA trigger. This is especially a concern when practicing alone, and doing a lot of holstering.

I stopped carrying glocks because of practicing alone in a valley with no cell phone reception. I couldn't justify the risk of holstering appendix. I didn't carry one again until the gadget was on it, which solidified my risk/vs reward analysis of carry guns. I either want a manual safety, hammer to glock, or a gadget.

[BehindBlueI's]

Across 28 years, every single ND in my department was caused by the same exact thing: pulling the trigger.

https://www.wthr.com/article/shootin...-holstered-gun

I suppose you could argue that the key (I know media says key or antennae, but key) pulled the trigger. No officer did, though.

No injury, but I also know of an incident with a worn out leather holster that was so floppy the mouth could collapse and get in the trigger guard that resulted in an unintended discharge upon holstering. The first incident would have certainly been prevented with an external hammer. The hooded holster wouldn't let the hammer rise enough to trip. A manual safety, if engaged, would have also prevented it. The second, an external hammer may have prevented it had the user thumbed the hammer. A manual safety, if engaged, would have prevented it.

Small potatoes compared to the plethora of pulling the trigger to break down the gun incidents, but they do happen.

[Clusterfrack]

The only gunshot injury I've seen at a match was caused by a guy speed holstering his gun at a steel match. He had a funky holster that he had modified, and he was a larger individual and could not see the holster. It is likely that his finger was what caused the ND, but I believe he denied it. The 9mm bullet passed superficially through his thigh and calf, and then hit his foot, causing significant damage.

[JonInWA]

And then there's the speed draw induced ND/ADs from Serpa holsters...

Best, Jon

[Hollander]

I never got into SFA pistols for whatever reason. My initial exposure to pistol shooting was via the Beretta M9a1. From there I’ve progressed to DA/SA revolvers. I’ll never tell someone else what to carry (DA/SA vs SFA, semi-auto vs revolver), but I personally prioritize weapons safety just as much as I do effectiveness and tactical practicality. For me a DA/SA pistol will always be a go-to choice since I have multiple safety features at my disposal, some of which can be used or not used at my discretion (the safety/decocker on the Beretta 92 is a good example of that).

People AIWB with SFA Glocks lacking any sort of manual safety; they’ll say that a good holster and trigger awareness is key to safe firearms handling. They’re absolutely right, but I find that DA/SA and an optional manual safety added in addition to aforementioned trigger awareness and holster selection facilitates even greater safety for me. Being prepared for that fictional bad guy who means you harm is important….but being prepared for inherent mistakes and lapses in awareness (which all humans are prone to) is just as important in my book.

[Yung]

Watch this video, and he neither places his thumb on the hammer when holstering, or mentions it as a desired technique.

Aside from me, and the two dozen posters on PF that carry a DA/SA for EDC, wonder what the percentage of the greater universe of DA/SA owners knows to thumb their hammer, and actually does it? My own belief is that the availability of kydex holsters, molded to a particular model pistol with a covered trigger guard has done more to improve safety than any hammer, gadget, etc. If we could get people to use a proper holster, and not cover themselves with their muzzle when they draw and holster, we could probably go a long way to reduce gun accidents.

I knew about thumb on hammer from reading Ayoob stuff back when I was growing up carrying strong-side Sigs. I actually watched that Pannone video when I switched to 1) the P10c and 2) appendix and was looking for tips on reholstering.

When I decided to buy my first Glock last year, I put a Gadget on it right away but it wasn't until I went to a class and Mr. Johnston had to remind me that it really works even better if you actually put your thumb on it when reholstering.

Groundbreaking class, would recommend again.