Red Dots: Use of, Astigmatism, & Pratice

[Jay585]

Just got a G19 MOS slide from Big Tex Outdoors and mounted a Trijicon type 1 RM01. Sadly I just discovered I have an astigmatism.

Regarding my astigmatism: While the dot shape changes with lighting, I can usually pick out the solid dot within the starburst.

It's almost like an EOTech reticle but with light shading filling the space between the ring and the dot. I've also noticed that if I activate my X300 the starburst effect goes away and I get a nice round dot although it's harder to pick up (looks washed out).

I was wondering if a smaller or larger dot would change anything. Would a small 1 MOA dot have a smaller starburst? Would having an adjustable LED with the brightness cranked all the way up appear "in focus"?

Regarding use: Is the proper sight picture to focus on the target while placing the dot in the parameters of the target?

Regarding practice: I have been "micro-drilling" the draw with the RDS. Starting from mid torso (as if drawing from AIWB) joining hands and extending to target. Typically I pick up the dot halfway to extension. If something is off in the draw, I get the dot at extension: usually I'm seeing front sight, then having to drop the muzzle straight down to pick up the dot (running OEM plastics for now). What should I be striving for regarding acquiring the dot?

Dry firing: when I heard that you can really pick up movement with a dot, they weren't kidding! How can I interpret what movements translate to? I have noticed some consistently to my dot movements:

• A hard grip gives with the slack taken up me a 3/4 clockwise circular movement. So as a lefty, the dot will move from 12 to 7 before the trigger breaks.
• Hard grip with the no take up has me going a 3/4 counterclockwise movement. 12 to 5.
• A loose grip with the slack taken up has the dot moving down to 6 oclock. No take up has the dot moving to 12.
• A straight line from center to 5 o'clock will happen sometimes, and I haven't been able to determine how I make that happen.

[Trukinjp13]

I have astigmatism as well. With my rm01 and the adjustable dot it does help dial in the bloom of the dot. But you will have to remember to set the dot where you want every time you go out. After X hours of inactivity it will go auto. Which is not a bad feature but it will definitely be a ugly dot depending on the back lighting when you bring the dot up.

I have discovered that while not precise, even when the dot blooms up on me it is still very fast to acquire the target. Not 25 yards plus precision but defensive use it still works better for me than irons. It is very fast to adjust the dot in focus better if you are going for long range stuff.

Someone smarter than me will better explain some of this. But that is my perspective.


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[SoCalDep]

Others have more experience than me and I’m on my phone so forgive the typos please, but I’ll address the astigmatism issue. My astigmatism does what you describe (changing dot shaped and “burst” effect). The first thing I did was put on my glasses which confirmed to me that the actual dot is in fact a nice clear circle. I think this is important so we know we’re working to improve “us” and that the equipment is working right. I don’t shoot with glasses so there’s always that option if it’s for fun/games.

I thought I made a big mistake when I purchased a type 1 RM02 (6.5 MOA) with my astigmatism, but for whatever sciency reason I don’t understand, the 6.5 MOA seems more clear to me than the 3.25 MOA RM06 I purchased later. The 3.25 isn’t bad, but it bursts more for me in all but bright light... I’m curious to see how my DeltaPoint Pro does with its smaller dot when my slide comes back from Primary Machine.

In bright light both dots are clear, but indoors and in low light the effects of my astigmatism are apparent. I’ve found for all but very precise distance shooting it doesn’t make a big difference. Put funky bursting dot on target - boom.

I also notice that it is my dominant left eye (right handed) that has the astigmatism. If the dot sucks when my left eye is picking it up I “Wayne’s World” it and go “camera 2” and get a nice clean dot. Creepy. Last night driving home I noticed that even with my glasses my left eye was picking up two images of the crescent moon while my right eye saw it clearly. If it was a big problem I suppose I could start training to pick up the dot with my right eye but I still shoot irons a lot and it doesn’t affect my performance enough to justify it.

[GJM]

1) without my glasses/contacts, the dot is about 150 moa. Forget about the dot shape, you aren’t shooting bullseye at 100 yards with it, look at the target and when the blob is within the scoring area, break the shot.

2) it is harder to quickly acquire the dot on an RMR than a larger window optic.

3) look at my thread on middle knuckle index, and see if that doesn’t help you align the dot more predictably.

[Jay585]

Just found this article on Greg Elifritz's site. The article is helping out a lot.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...g-the-red-dot/

Big takeaways for me:

Beginners make the mistake of trying to center the dot perfectly in the window and then hold it there as if it was a front sight that must be aligned in the rear notch. A dot shooter can barely catch a glimmer of dot in the corner of the window and still be certain that the bullet hole is going there. (This assumes away the minor elevation difference between the line of sight and bore line, typically a non-issue in most defensive or duty shooting scenarios) Slowing down to center the dot is just that—slowing down—and to no purpose.

If the dot is “painting” the target area as you swing onto target, or the pistol recovers from recoil, that is enough information to crash the trigger and get the hit. New dot shooters tend to want mightily to steady and still the dot before engaging the trigger. This is usually counterproductive within a car length or so.

Many newer dot shooters try to keep the dot in place on its intended aimpoint, and then ever so gently keep it there without disturbing it as they break the shot. ...The path to success runs through learning to move the dot ever so subtly using nothing but trigger-finger pressure. The shooter presses through the takeup in the trigger, and as they address that last bit of resistance they are gently moving the dot where they want it to be if it has strayed, or keeping it in place by keeping the pressure straight to the rear. The best way to exercise this is in dry fire, focusing on gently correcting the dot up/down and side-to-side with the trigger held past any takeup at “the break.” Once the shooter can provide subtle input to the dot position via trigger finger control, the hits will come quickly.

EDIT: @GJM this the one? "a simpler way to reliably acquire the red dot -- MKI " https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....he-red-dot-MKI

I also notice that it is my dominant left eye (right handed) that has the astigmatism. If the dot sucks when my left eye is picking it up I “Wayne’s World” it and go “camera 2” and get a nice clean dot. Creepy. Last night driving home I noticed that even with my glasses my left eye was picking up two images of the crescent moon while my right eye saw it clearly. If it was a big problem I suppose I could start training to pick up the dot with my right eye but I still shoot irons a lot and it doesn’t affect my performance enough to justify it.

I tried my right eye, same result which is unfortunate as I shoot almost as well right handed. I do enjoy precision distance shooting (I can usually bust a clay shotgun target at 70 yards within half a G19 mag) so it will be interesting to see what workarounds I come up with.

[GJM]

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

Greg is discussing aiming considerations, and makes great points. My post is about using your natural index to bring the dot to where you want it to be.

[feudist]

One thing I'm struggling with is that the speed at which the dot allows you to break the shot is so much faster than irons that I whack the trigger trying to shoot faster than I can pull the trigger(?).
My Glock doesn't seen to reward that.

[SCSU74]

I have astigmatism as well, but don't really notice it while shooting MRDS. I have time on RMRs, DPPs and a Romeo. I had heard that as long as you don't focus on the dot astigmatism is a non-issue. I stay target focused for the duration, I look where I want the bullets to go and as long as my presentation/mechanics are solid the dot appears.

Something that helped me a lot was Aaron Cowan's advice to bring the backplate to your nose. If you do this the dot is always there.

[pew_pew]

I have an astigmatism. I found going with a bigger dot and keeping the brightness down is the best option. I have a milled G45 slide with an RM07 getting done right now.

[Rc217]

I notice the effect of my astigmatism on the dot but it doesn’t effect my accuracy on target. Also, I have noticed that the eotech style reticle available on the Holosun 507c doesn’t distort at all with my astigmatism, even without glasses or contacts.