Learning about rifle quality

[HCountyGuy]

So most of my firearms experience has been dominated by handguns, and even then I'm by no means an expert. Rifles are a relatively unexplored avenue for me.

I've searched about here and found the general consensus that Colt LE6920 is about the bottom of where one should look in regards to a reliable, entry-level rifle. I do recall at one point Chuck Haggard was testing out the M&P Sport line and reported favorably, so they may be an option as well. Overall though, aside from some basic knowledge of the inner workings of the AR platform, I'm not terribly up to speed on the minutiae of overall parts quality and what I should really be looking for or checking against when I purchase a rifle or eventually get in to building one.

The internet has proved to be a tad overwhelming at points and as such I feel the collective here could provide better guidance than stumbling around random websites trying to understand what makes a good bolt carrier group or what it means that some rifles may be over-gassed.

Any particular books or sources I should consider in my journey towards a better understanding of rifles and their parts quality?

[breakingtime91]

Not too sure on armorer type books, some others who are armorers will probably comment. Kyle Lambs green eyes black rifles book is a pretty good read if you are newer to the rifles.


Some of my common thoughts and go to companies when it comes to rifles:

Uppers/ complete rifle sources to trust and rely on:
Colt
Geiselle
Centurion
BCM
Daniel Defense

there is no real reason to venture away from those 5 companies, knight armament is another good one but pricey.

Lowers and lower parts kits:
Same companies listed about for lower parts kits (especially geiselle and bcm, they seem to be the best priced and quality)
I really like Aero lowers for the cost and have had people I trust tell me they are good to go.
G&R tactical also has BCM complete lowers for really reasonable prices year round, can't go wrong there either.

[StraitR]

@breakingtime91 has given some excellent advice. I agree with all of it.

I will add, that if you didn't want to spend Colt, BCM, or DD money, then the S&W MP-15 Sport II would be the way to go. If you're just getting into rifles, buy a complete rifle or a complete upper and complete lower and piece them together. IMO, generally speaking, serious use carbines should be factory complete guns (or factory upper mated to factory lower), not home builds.

[Wake27]

Book

I don't remember where I saw this recommended, and have yet to buy it so no personal experience, but this one was mentioned by a few people somewhere.

As far as companies and stuff, the above posts won't steer you wrong. If I were getting into ARs right now and wanted my first good one but didn't want to drop $1,500+, I'd get the newly released complete gun from Centurion Arms which is right around $1k. If willing to spend more, get a BCM midlength with their MCMR rail. If you want the best thing you can buy, buy a Knight's SR-15 Mod 2.

General rules of thumb (IMO):
1. The barrel and bolt carrier group are the heart of the rifle. Don't skimp on them. The trigger is number three. Stay away from all of the fancy shit regarding BCGs until you have more knowledge and experience. I'm not of the mindset that you need the most basic Colt and thousands of rounds before you could possibly know what you want, but BCGs can be their own rabbit-hole and there are several that just don't work. The two exceptions I'd make are the Sionics NP3 BCG or the BCM IonBond BCG. But as mentioned above, those are both quality companies that rarely produce bad stuff.
2. First rifle should always be factory. Later on, you can mess with the lower quite a bit with just a few tools and youtube, but I personally prefer to leave the upper work to the factory or other trained guys because the gas system can be finicky. At some point I'll take an actual class on it but not at the top of my list right now.
3. Midlength gas is better than carbine gas. Its softer shooting and easier on the internals of the gun, while being just as (if not more so) reliable.
4. Fixed front sight posts have some pros, but I prefer an extended handguard paired with a low-pro gas block. More rail-estate is rarely bad and the longer free float hand guards will protect your barrel better from barricades/other stuff that'll throw off your POI. I prefer 13" rails on 14.5" guns.

[okie john]

I've searched about here and found the general consensus that Colt LE6920 is about the bottom of where one should look in regards to a reliable, entry-level rifle.

I may be wrong, but I think that the 6920 probably gets well into the top end for direct impingement rifles. In decades of building rifles on the M-16 platform, Colt has absolutely nailed the details that a lot of many people overlook.

I can't speak about piston guns.


Okie John

[einherjarvalk]

I'd add Sionics, LMT, and FN to the list of reputable manufacturers. While FN's handgun lines are somewhat hit or miss, their carbines appear to be in good hands. I'll also vouch for Sons of Liberty Gun Works; edgy branding aside, their customer service is excellent and their eye for quality parts and engineering is as well. Mike Pappas had nothing but good things to say about them and their work on the Nox flash hider when I asked him about how it compared to Dead Air's OEM mounts, and I've seen a lot of high praise for them elsewhere.

I'll also note a caveat on the praise for Knight's Armament - while their rifles are absolutely top-notch and worth every penny, be aware that there's some parts that will be proprietary on the SR-15 (bolt, barrel, firing pin, gas tube all come to mind; Weapon Outfitters has a great writeup on the improvements here). While these parts are all designed to provide a longer service life than standard AR-15/M16 parts, if you're the sort who likes to stockpile spares, you're going to be paying quite a bit more for them.

That said, "you get what you pay for" absolutely applies to ARs. Milspec is a good place to start, but the higher the dollar value goes, the more attention to detail in machining and design stands out.

[HCountyGuy]

I may be wrong, but I think that the 6920 probably gets well into the top end for direct impingement rifles. In decades of building rifles on the M-16 platform, Colt has absolutely nailed the details that a lot of many people overlook.

I can't speak about piston guns.


Okie John

I wasn’t meaning to infer the 6920 was bottom of the barrel, just that it’s the bottom price-wise for a reliable AR rifle.

[Jay585]

I have a similar question (sort of) and I'm not sure if I should be posting this here or starting a separate thread.

I want to learn how to assemble my own quality AR's, and was wondering what the best way to do that is.

I was thinking buy a cheap PSA kit, take it apart, put it together (properly) and test fire. Do this several times with kits of varying quality, then after some experience start buying piece-by-piece and assemble an AR from the ground up.

[Wake27]

I wasn’t meaning to infer the 6920 was bottom of the barrel, just that it’s the bottom price-wise for a reliable AR rifle.

It is. Most Colts like the 6920 are very high quality in durability, reliability, and even accuracy (typically), but low-quality in features. The Colt Trooper (6960 I think) steps it up with a LW barrel, middy gas system, and Centurion handguard, but unless I can get it under $800 (which I've never seen), I'd still rather pay a little bit more for a Centurion or BCM.

I have a similar question (sort of) and I'm not sure if I should be posting this here or starting a separate thread.

I want to learn how to assemble my own quality AR's, and was wondering what the best way to do that is.

I was thinking buy a cheap PSA kit, take it apart, put it together (properly) and test fire. Do this several times with kits of varying quality, then after some experience start buying piece-by-piece and assemble an AR from the ground up.

If you want to do it the best way, there are a few companies that provide armorer classes. Semper Paratus comes to mind. There is another one that I can't think of the name, Sully posts over on P&S but every time I look at his schedule its LE only. What you're describing will work for the lower but as I said in my post, the upper is slightly more complicated and much more often screwed up.

[ASH556]

I have a similar question (sort of) and I'm not sure if I should be posting this here or starting a separate thread.

I want to learn how to assemble my own quality AR's, and was wondering what the best way to do that is.

I was thinking buy a cheap PSA kit, take it apart, put it together (properly) and test fire. Do this several times with kits of varying quality, then after some experience start buying piece-by-piece and assemble an AR from the ground up.

The Semper Paratus class is essentially what you describe. You have to come to class with a rifle. It's a full 2-day class, and you assemble and disassemble the complete gun multiple times under the guidance of a true SME. At the same time, there really is no replacement for experience.


On a completely separate note and more to the topic of this thread, I have some thoughts to share. Warning, some of this will go against popular and often regurgitated opinions:

BCM, Colt, DD, Centurion (new, but should be gtg given pedigree) are where I would look for a factory gun. That said, I use Colt absolutely everywhere I possibly can for parts, receivers, barrels, etc. In fact, I'd rather pay an armorer/AR shop (like ADCO) to modify a 6920 with my handguard/barrel/FSB preference than buy a factory BCM or DD. Obviously as an armorer I do my own work. That's one thing that Will stresses in class is that if you wouldn't trust your life with your work, why should anyone else. There are members of this board who run guns I've built and run them hard. It's not rocket surgery, but there are right ways to do things and wrong ways.

As I've posted before, I was employed as an armorer for one of the largest FFL/ranges in the Atlanta Metro. I've had the opportunity to turn wrenches on lots of guns from the very bottom of the barrel to top of the line. I've seen problems with boutique guns like Noveske, JP, and KAC and problems with garbage guns too. Personally I've seen problems with BCM and DD too. By far my favorite brand of rifle to work on is Colt. It's not because I'm a Colt fanboy. Colt's policies and attitude towards the consumer market for most of the last 18 years I've been involved with this stuff has been shitty. That's what gave place to DD, BCM and others in the first place.

That said, Colt is the most consistently correct of all AR manufacturers I've encountered.

**Side rant on middy vs carbine:

You can't just across the board say middy is better than carbine. It depends on port sizing, carrier weight, spring, and buffer weight. The whole thing is a balancing act. We have more data on some systems than others. However, it all starts with the gas port size. Too large a gas port is wrong whether it's carbine or middy. Right size gas port is right whether carbine or middy. Most manufacturers won't tell you what their gas port size is. Some don't even know.

Boutique guns are useless to me. A lot of them actually do things that are detrimental to performance; in the name of better performance. If you get down the rabbit hole to the point where you understand what you're giving up and what you're potentially gaining, fine, roll on. However, don't go drop $2,500+ on a Noveske, KAC, etc 5.56 gun and assume that you're getting better quality than Colt.