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Thread: Active shooter drills and the downside

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    Active shooter drills and the downside

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...stakis/580426/

    Interesting article. FYI for now. Don't have time for detailed commentary as I have to go. I do note that the validity of throwing hockey pucks and cans of creamed corn aren't impressive. The idea of trauma after unplanned or realistic drills is stated. Before you poo-poo that, in some of the more intensive FOF we see some adults of our type have significant stress reactions. I think a kid in one of those surprise drills (stupid) might be really affected.

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    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...stakis/580426/

    Interesting article. FYI for now. Don't have time for detailed commentary as I have to go. I do note that the validity of throwing hockey pucks and cans of creamed corn aren't impressive. The idea of trauma after unplanned or realistic drills is stated. Before you poo-poo that, in some of the more intensive FOF we see some adults of our type have significant stress reactions. I think a kid in one of those surprise drills (stupid) might be really affected.
    Of all people, you would know that the mind doesn’t differentiate between active visualization and reality. I would think that realistic surprise drills would cause young people a lot of stress.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

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    The drills are (IMO) largely ineffective because there isn't competent experienced personnel and companies doing the training. Train the trainer ALICE stuff doesn't really cut it for places that are common viable terrorist/psycho targets. A guy that majored in educational administration isn't any more qualified to run an active shooter drill than I am performing heart surgery. That all being said it is indeed a rare occurrence but using that logic deadly fires are fuggin hyper rare too.

    If you're going to run drills do them correctly and competently or don't do them at all. They do need to be tailored to the student's age and mental capacity as well.


    As far as surprise PA announcements of "hey y'all you're all going to get murdered, this isn't a drill" to children without warning, this is one of those cases where the folks thinking that was an OK administrative decision need to have their careers leveled so they can try again in a field with less responsibility.
    Last edited by Peally; 02-06-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    ...the folks thinking that was an OK administrative decision need to have their careers leveled so they can try again in a field with less responsibility.
    Pretty much.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

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    "Surprise" and "active shooter drill" should probably never be used in the same sentence. Apart from traumatizing students, school staff, and parents, there is also the real risk that someone doesn't get the word and injury or death results. People may fall or stampede, vehicle crashes may occur as parents rush to the school, and there is risk to role-players if an off-duty officer or responding agency takes them for the real thing.

    In my experience as a trainer, simpler exercises tend to work better and have fewer glitches to the "cooler" and supposedly more realistic stuff. An officer from my former department remarked how much he had learned about building searches (after extensive training and experience) in doing blue gun training at FLETC. The lack of protective gear and probably lower stress allowed for a better learning experience. (That's not to say that F-on-F drills don't have real value in training, but they're not the only methodology.)

    I think the same may apply to active shooter drills at schools. Teaching kids to lock down or evacuate because a bad person needs to be thwarted is one thing even with the proportionately low risk of an active shooter in a school. Running highly realistic scenarios, especially with no warning, is going a bridge too far and is probably counter-productive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    "Surprise" and "active shooter drill" should probably never be used in the same sentence. Apart from traumatizing students, school staff, and parents, there is also the real risk that someone doesn't get the word and injury or death results. People may fall or stampede, vehicle crashes may occur as parents rush to the school, and there is risk to role-players if an off-duty officer or responding agency takes them for the real thing.

    In my experience as a trainer, simpler exercises tend to work better and have fewer glitches to the "cooler" and supposedly more realistic stuff. An officer from my former department remarked how much he had learned about building searches (after extensive training and experience) in doing blue gun training at FLETC. The lack of protective gear and probably lower stress allowed for a better learning experience. (That's not to say that F-on-F drills don't have real value in training, but they're not the only methodology.)

    I think the same may apply to active shooter drills at schools. Teaching kids to lock down or evacuate because a bad person needs to be thwarted is one thing even with the proportionately low risk of an active shooter in a school. Running highly realistic scenarios, especially with no warning, is going a bridge too far and is probably counter-productive.
    I agree with everything you said with the exception of your use of the word “probably.”



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    We've had two active shooter alerts (not drills) at my place of employment over the past couple of years. As it turned out, both were false alarms (sort of). During the first one, I shut and locked the door to my office and sat quietly while listening for gun shots. It took about 20 minutes to send out a second round of communications stating that there was actually no active shooter and that someone hit the wrong button. The second alert happened last fall and was the result of a shooting just off campus. I'd left work early that afternoon to go to the pistol range of all places. None of the people I interact with on a regular basis (all adults) seemed particularly stressed by either event. Most people weren't at work yet when the first alert occurred, and most people seemed relieved that the second event was off campus and did not involve our people. These false alerts were honest mistakes, and I don't think there's much about them that needs forgiving.

    However, if something like this happened at my daughter's school, I'd be pretty angry and much slower to forgive. Knowingly putting children through an unannounced drill and telling them it's not a drill is dangerous and unethical.

    Almost off topic here, but we had the "hide under your desk to get away from the nuclear bomb" drill when I was in elementary school in the early 80s, along with some vintage civil defense films. My wife is two years younger than me and doesn't have those memories, but that might be because we went to different schools. The danger of a nuclear attack did stress me as a child, and my determination to dig a fallout shelter under our house stressed my dad.

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    Site Supporter Notorious E.O.C.'s Avatar
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    From an all-hazards perspective, what I'm seeing now in my constituency is college-age young adults whose preparedness fixation is exclusively on active aggressors because it's the only threat that's been emphasized to them. More, they know the training they received in the K-12 environment boils down to "die in place on Facebook Live," so there's a feeling of powerlessness underlain with betrayal by authority figures.
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    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Condition Write View Post
    From an all-hazards perspective, what I'm seeing now in my constituency is college-age young adults whose preparedness fixation is exclusively on active aggressors because it's the only threat that's been emphasized to them. More, they know the training they received in the K-12 environment boils down to "die in place on Facebook Live," so there's a feeling of powerlessness underlain with betrayal by authority figures.
    The eventual rebellion against that will be glorious.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

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    In a discussion about responses to an active shoooter, I was - of course - an advocate of campus carry. The majority of faculty were opposed. I asked one person what they would do if an active shooter came into their class. The response was: What can we do?

    Meaning, we just die - not what's a good tactic.

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