Accountability for Missed shots in LE Qualifications

[KeeFus]

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My agency qualification is different than most others I've seen. First, there are no set round counts. You show up at the range with what you normally carry in your duty belt. If you carry more, you can shoot more; less, you can shoot less. Every time the target turns (at various distances, the targets run on a track) you shoot as many times as you can while the target faces. This simulates shooting until the target is no longer a threat. For evaluation purposes, targets at shorter distances face for less time than longer distances. Our targets are double sided; one side has a figure with a gun, and the other doesn't have a gun. The non-gun side is a no-shoot. At one point during the qual, the target charges you while faced. We have two programs for the qual, with the distances and times a bit mixed up. This is good, but after a few years, we sort of know the drill..

Wow. Our day qualification course is 50 rounds and each bullet is worth 2 points...minimum score is 80. From 25 yards they fire 10 rounds; 5 prone and 5 standing. In theory they could not fire a round from 25 yards and still pass (10 shots at 2 points each is 20 points). One missed shot at other distances and they would fail.

Our combat course is mandated by the State and they require decision making to be part of the it. It’s a separate pass/fail course, but all LEO in this State are required to pass their agencies course. One combat course for day and another for night.

[Dr. No]

My agency- for pistol quals shots off target are -2. If it wasn't that way they would spend a fortune qualifying CO's.

For LE who have a rifle, any shot off target is an automatic fail. More than two misses and you cannot re-shoot the qual.

For SWAT we have a "any round off target is a fail" rule for everything.

[Sammy1]

Massachusetts has a State standard (MPTC) pistol qualification course that requires 100% round accountability. Any rounds off the paper is a fail and the officer has to re-shoot that stage. Minimum score of 80% in the 50 round course. http://www.mlefiaa.org/files/MPTC_NE...__3_5_2012.pdf

[AMC]

Massachusetts has a State standard (MPTC) pistol qualification course that requires 100% round accountability. Any rounds off the paper is a fail and the officer has to re-shoot that stage. Minimum score of 80% in the 50 round course. http://www.mlefiaa.org/files/MPTC_NE...__3_5_2012.pdf

Just to be clear....it's 80% hits on the silhouette to pass, but 100% hits must at least be on the cardboard or it's a fail. Is that correct?

[Sammy1]

Just to be clear....it's 80% hits on the silhouette to pass, but 100% hits must at least be on the cardboard or it's a fail. Is that correct?

Affirm. All rounds must be on the paper and each stage has a minimum # of rounds that must be hits. Anything off the paper is a no go and failure to get the required amount of hits per stage is a no go. We score each target before moving on to the next yard line.

[KeeFus]

Massachusetts has a State standard (MPTC) pistol qualification course that requires 100% round accountability. Any rounds off the paper is a fail and the officer has to re-shoot that stage. Minimum score of 80% in the 50 round course. http://www.mlefiaa.org/files/MPTC_NE...__3_5_2012.pdf

15 yards is as far back as you shoot?

[AMC]

That's become more common in California, since it's all the POST requires....and administrators like to treat minimum standards as maximum standards. Every agency I've seen here with a "100%" qual standard only shoots to 15 yards.

[KeeFus]

That's become more common in California, since it's all the POST requires....and administrators like to treat minimum standards as maximum standards. Every agency I've seen here with a "100%" qual standard only shoots to 15 yards.

Dang. I thought 25 yards was a common yardage for pistol qualifications. NC requires us to qualify from the same distances that BLET (police academy) classes have to...and be within a certain percentage of the rounds fired at each yard-line.

[the Schwartz]

For the small local Ohio agencies I've been involved with, most pass the first time. The rest pass on the second try.

Biggest problems are missing the head shot and being slow on the slide lock reload because they are reloading out of mag pouches placed to be comfortable in a cruiser.

The previous Qualification was 60 rounds and had shooting on the move and low light. It was much harder to administrate because it didn't flow. The current one is much easier to run on the range.

An Ohioan myself, I have seen the 2004LEOSA qualifications dwindle over the years from firing a 60-round for qualification to a 50-round, then a 35-round and now to just an 8-round course of qualifying fire as they currently require only what the host department (mine is a large metro PD) requires for qualifying with a 'back-up' (non-issued, off-duty) gun. I wish that we'd return to firing at least a 50-round qualification as 8 rounds just seems to be......insufficient....not nearly enough IMHO for determining fitness for the status. So far misses do not seem to be much of an issue (there are very few during the qualifications that I have participated in), but with the reduction in the length of the course of fire, that is not surprising. Of course with just 8 rounds being fired, I am of the opinion that just one missed shot should be an automatic fail with one chance to re-qualify under the same standard.

[jnc36rcpd]

We reduced the off-duty/back-up gun course to the state minimum of thirty rounds daylight and thirty rounds low-light. I noticed some officers seemed to have real manipulation issues with weapons they may have carried often, but rarely trained on.