@octagon, sorry my handwriting sucks with a fat sharpie, hell it looks like I wrote 148 sorry about that. It is just standard pressure 147gr Federal HST, (P9HST2). I think the ammo/gun is definitely more accurate than I am. I should have just mailed a few boxes of it to GJM and his wife to shoot. Anything they turn out would've been more telling.
Last edited by Mike C; 01-31-2019 at 10:15 AM.
As a point of reference, Scott Warren is selling his 42 and 43 sight set with a .215 front and his .230 rear height sight.
I currently have a .225 front on the gun with the warren rear. Ill zero it next week when im off duty and report back to see where we are impact wise.
My off duty load will be a 124 grain gold dot with my practice load being a 135 grain round nose flat point.
I'm not running either a G43x or G48--yet--but have coonfingered both and I'm deeply impressed. Soon, soon....
As for the "correct" sight height, they're Glocks. Based on my experience, there's an excellent chance that a new Glock pistol will not regulate properly out of the box. (This doesn't matter inside of 10 yards, but it starts to matter at 15 and at 50 you can be almost off the paper.) Also, sight sets are normally sold in the same heights (or in the same proportion) as factory sights, so a pistol that doesn't regulate with factory sights won't regulate with new ones either. Once I had played the guessing game with enough Glocks to realize this, I bought an assortment of black front sights from Ameriglo. I'd identify the correct front sight height for the pistol in question, then buy a night sight of the same height, zero for my carry load, holster, and move out.
I also learned that Glock pistols don't all regulate the same way, so a set of sights (or heights) that works on one gun might not work on another. Long story short, I plan to spend some time fiddling with sights to get POI on any new Glock where it needs to be.
But this research revealed another problem. At the time I learned this, I was heavily focused on accuracy: Wilson barrels, match-grade handloads, extensive ammo testing at 25, 50, and 100 yards, etc. When I'd fit a new barrel, I'd shoot the 2,000 Round Challenge to make sure that the gun was GTG for carry. In those days, I was buying S&B ammo 10 cases at a time, so I was always shooting the same load from the same lot number. I was also paying close attention to my zeros, and I noticed that they'd wander for a few hundred rounds when a pistol was new, then settle down. The same thing also happened with OEM barrels in unmodified pistols.
I think it has something to do with how the locking block fits in the frame. When I was shooting bullseye in the Oklahoma National Guard back in the early 80's, older shooters told me never to pull the barrel off of a Smith M-41 or to separate the upper and lower receiver on a Ruger Mk I. They said that groups would open up and it would take 500 rounds or so for the parts to settle in again, and that you'd have to chase your zero the whole time. A couple of these guys were heavyweight contenders at Camp Perry every year, so I'm inclined to believe them.
So along with the Glocks-not-regulating thing, I also think that new Glock pistols might just need a few hundred rounds for the locking block to fully seat in the frame. The Gen4 and Gen5 guns have ended my quest for a more accurate Glock so I haven't followed the locking block line of inquiry any farther, but I think that it could be at play as I read the posts on this thread. I also think that this may show up more with the Gen5 guns because they're so much more accurate than earlier generations.
Food for thought if nothing else...
Okie John
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
I hate to dumb down the conversation, but I’ve noticed a huge change in point of impact when changing from 115s to 124s in my 43.
I think I might have to practice with the weight of my carry ammo if I want the intuitiveness I’m looking for.
PS - nice work okie john
@okie john absolutely brilliant.
Thanks for the kind words.
I think we're going to see more emphasis on zero as Gen5 pistols become more common.
When I was working with match barrels, I shot 10-shot groups and layered targets to gather data from 20-, 30-, and 40-shot groups. After looking at dozens of those groups every week for about a year, I felt that most Glocks (especially with poorly chosen ammo) just made a cloud of holes in the target. The bullet holes tended to be randomly distributed throughout a circle of a given size, which got smaller as the barrels got better or loads were more closely matched to the gun. OEM barrels and poorly chosen ammo also tended to produce more uncalled flyers than match barrels with loads that they shot well. They usually shot into 8-10" at 25 yards, and the groups from different loads were so big and overlapped so much that it could be hard to see how much their POIs actually differed. Match barrels rarely outshot OEM barrels with crappy ammo, but once I found the right load, they often shot into 2.5 or 3" at 25 yards. Then you could start to see a difference.
The new ones shoot so well that I think more folks will start seeing (as @Enel has) one load group at the top of the front sight blade, another at six o'clock in the ball, another at ten o'clock just off of the ball, and so on.
Once people start to do a little more load testing, some of them will realize that they're far better shots than they ever thought.
Okie John
Last edited by okie john; 01-31-2019 at 04:33 PM.
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
Red dots sure make zeroing easier — as in easier to shoot a good group and easier to dial in an exact POI.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Did some more 25 yard work today and am improving. Interesting that the more I improve, the less the ammo shoots wonky
124 Magtech:
Then 86, 71-1, 75-1, things were deteriorating. So I alternated live fire and dry fire loading single rounds and removing magazines. This did two things: it helped my shooting bunches, and it proved the G48 easily passes the 10-8 ejection test. It ejects magnificently. The RO even commented on how it was throwing brass into the next stall over the barrier.
Armscor 115 is right at tip of front.
I wanted to give the 115 AE another try and behold, it hits centered when I can pull the trigger correctly.
Some Advanced Supertests from the DSG Hitchhiker: 260, 249-1. Discouraging. I still shoot this like a G43. Times were within limits, but nothing amazing. I slowed way down to see what I was capable of and if I blew the times, it didn’t shoot half bad.
Spent time on find your level at 5 from ready. Worked each target separately. With just a short amount of work, was able to be around 2.0s on every target with some
thrown shots.
Now the bad news: I had four light striker hits in the first 50 rounds of Magtech 124 grain. I installed the SCD prior to this range trip and in the process briefly lost the extractor spring. I found it and reinstalled it. All rounds fired second strike and my suspicion is the gun was slightly out of battery. All ammo was from the same box and I never had problems again later in session. So: ammo(likely) or something searing itself after SCD install(don’t see how this is possible), or something else. I disassembled the slide when I got home and don’t see anything amiss. Will shoot some more Magtech and see what happens.
That’s a little unsettling.Originally Posted by Enel
I don't know what to make of it. I shot 285 rounds and all of the problems were in the first 30.
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