PCC vs CO vs Open pistol (times)

[strow]

How do the scores and times compare on the same course of fire between PCC, Carry Optics, and Open pistol? Assuming the same course of fire or standars and the same class of shooter?

How much advantage does the PCC offer over a CO pistol or full blown race gun with GM class shooters?

Has anyone looked at the scores comparing these? I am just curious.

I would assume that the PCC would be more of an advantage to the C and B class shooters. And that the GM PCC and Open times would be pretty similar on the same COF. This is just a guess and I am sure you could build stages to skew the data.

[GJM]

How do the scores and times compare on the same course of fire between PCC, Carry Optics, and Open pistol? Assuming the same course of fire or standars and the same class of shooter?

How much advantage does the PCC offer over a CO pistol or full blown race gun with GM class shooters?

Has anyone looked at the scores comparing these? I am just curious.

I would assume that the PCC would be more of an advantage to the C and B class shooters. And that the GM PCC and Open times would be pretty similar on the same COF. This is just a guess and I am sure you could build stages to skew the data.

I don’t believe your question is answerable as posed.

Shooting a good match in CO, against the same group of local shooters with multiple GM PCC shooters, I will range from 65-95 percent of high overall. It really does depend on the course design.

In Steel Challenge, where I am the same class in CO and PCC, the difference in my times is basically the difference between starting from low ready vs a surrender draw. However that is one shot per target for and relatively easy targets, where the ease of transitioning the pistol negates the splitting advantage of the PCC.

[CleverNickname]

PCC will have an advantage over handguns in some short courses. For example, in an El Presidente, PCC's don't have to start facing uprange, and they start at low ready. Not turning or drawing can take a bit off the raw time. PCC will be at a disadvantage where there's stuff like tight leans around barriers where the longer gun is more difficult to maneuver, so if a particular course is weighted towards that then PCC will be at a disadvantage.

[YVK]

This depends on a course of fire more so than classification. @GJM and myself had this conversation a couple of days earlier. If the whole match is set correctly and things even out, generally better shooters win. A single course of fire, not so much. If most of COF targets are closely spaced, not a whole lot of movement, nothing awkward, short hosing stages, I've seen C/B class shooters put in times with PCC that would be same or faster as M/GM with handguns. Change it to unloaded start, put in a bunch of barricades with left/right leans, low port, long running distances, things go the other way.

[strow]

GJM, that is what I was looking for! Thank you!

Your Steel Challenge times are interesting. If you shot the same steel challenge COF but incrementally increased the distance, at what do you think the CO would start to suffer? Again just a wild guess.

[olstyn]

It really does depend on the course design.

This. ^

If there are a lot of tight walls to maneuver around, PCC is going to be more awkward, and PCC shooters will lose time vs pistol shooters. If the course design is more open and/or includes long distance shots, then the fact that a long gun has 3 points of contact with the shooter and is inherently easier to shoot fast while maintaining accuracy will come into play more.

[GJM]

GJM, that is what I was looking for! Thank you!

Your Steel Challenge times are interesting. If you shot the same steel challenge COF but incrementally increased the distance, at what do you think the CO would start to suffer? Again just a wild guess.

Think of the hot/crazy matrix, but substitute accuracy/transitions. This distance will vary by shooter, but at some point the ease of hitting with a PCC trumps their slower transitions.

[jwhitt]

Generally, Open GMs will beat out PCC and CO shooters of equal classification. This may be because: (1) making GM in Open generally requires more skill than making GM in PCC (no offense PCC), (2) Open gets major PF scoring, and/or (3) Open guns are more maneuverable than rifles, especially on tight stages. Depending on the stage design and number of reloads, CO and PCC shooters of equal classification could be a toss up as they are both scored minor, use optics, and have hi cap mags. A quick review of USPSA practiscore results will typically confirm this observation. I cant speak for steel challenge or IDPA though.

[GJM]

Generally, Open GMs will beat out PCC and CO shooters of equal classification. This may be because: (1) making GM in Open generally requires more skill than making GM in PCC (no offense PCC), (2) Open gets major PF scoring, and/or (3) Open guns are more maneuverable than rifles, especially on tight stages. Depending on the stage design and number of reloads, CO and PCC shooters of equal classification could be a toss up as they are both scored minor, use optics, and have hi cap mags. A quick review of USPSA practiscore results will typically confirm this observation. I cant speak for steel challenge or IDPA though.

I think it really does depend on the stages.

Here is 2018 area 2, where Max Leograndis won in PCC and the first Open shooter was 92 percent.

https://practiscore.com/results/new/69654

At the 2018 Optics Nationals, Max Leograndis was quite close despite totally trashing three stages. Note that first CO was Max Michel at only 82 percent.

https://practiscore.com/results/new/...q_individual=0

In Steel Challenge, the fastest division is rimfire pistol, because you can transition the pistol easier than a rimfire long gun.

[taadski]

Some additional data points from last year...

Area 1 First PCC was 90% of open winner
Area 3 First PCC was 87% of open winner
Area 4 First PCC was 88% of open winner
Area 6 First PCC was 91% of open winner
Area 7 First PCC was 87% of open winner
Area 8 First PCC was 78% of open winner

Similar trend in State championship matches in 2018 and in the 2019 Florida State match that was held this month. FWIW.