Practicing From Concealed Holster

[halodog]

In an article titled "Intensive Handgun Skills: Speed Shooting Practice Drills" that was published in the Feb/March issue of US Concealed Carry Magazine, the author Duane Thomas states "my own testing years ago convinced me there is very, very little difference, either in technique or time, between doing a concealed or unconcealed draw". Duane's comment doesn't match my experience. Getting a handgun on target accurately and rapidly from a holstered/concealed position is not an easy thing to do and in my opinion demands regular practice. To the citizen who carrys discretely, the ability to draw and get on target accurately and rapidly could be the difference between a positive or negative outcome to a violent encounter.
I'd sure like to hear what others think about Duane's comment. (The article does contain some excellent drills.)

[Packy]

Dont be a cowboy and engage in a draw..
if you will draw, be aware how fast/slow you are to hit your target.

Duane's slowest draw is my fastest.. so i will not draw my pistol on him...

[bdcheung]

Agree 100%. There are big differences between drawing concealed and open.

To mention a few:

• Holster choice. When I do open carry, it's in an active-retention holster (Safariland 6378) which not only puts the gun in a different position, but requires a different set of motions to draw. I also practice with my concealed carry holsters, of which I use a few: AIWB, OWB (Raven Phantom), and IWB (Crossbreed SuperTuck). Each of these puts the gun in a different spot.
• Clearing of concealment garment. Again, depending on your holster choice, you're doing a number of different things.

[JConn]

There is a big difference if you want to get max speed. If you want to be proficient with both, practice both.

[halodog]

The purpose of my posting the question wasn't to "draw down on Duane". It's my understanding that he's a Master class IDPA shooter. I would just like to hear other's thoughts on his comment.

[Chuck Haggard]

I am noticeably faster from my duty rig, a Safariland ALS 6365 style, than I am from concealment. I also have to practice my concealed draw more or I risk not getting the Hackathorn rip up high enough and I botch the draw.

[JHC]

I generally agree with Thomas on this. Based on a bazillion draws across decades from open and concealed carry - from OWB, IWB and AIWB the difference is not what I consider big if within reasonable holster and garment parameters.

Over the past 18 months I've seen this clearly on the timer and targets using the FAST as test.

With either an open jacket for hip carry or a closed front garment with AIWB I've observed up to .5 second penalty combined for draw and reload from open vs concealed. (my standard frame of reference is under 6 seconds; clean or no more than one miss; over that something got seriously fubar'd in that run). The handful of FAST I've done clean just under 5 sec were all from open.

A closed front garment with hip carry is more noticeably challenging in my experience although I don't have a time number in mind I could swag.

Now in really cold weather I've run this test (FAST) from the hip with an open coat AND a fleece drawing from the hip and that double layer did impact speed a lot. No fun at all. AIWB does not suffer as badly here as there aren't really two layers to overcome.

Some garments are real problems however. A very light weight material of an open garment will give me problems drawing from the hip; being difficult to clear fully when swept back. In my experience many buttoned front shirts are harder clear for the reload than a T shirt or polo etc although not equally poor for just the draw.

My net net conclusion is that AIWB is more forgiving of garment than IWB - for the draw specifically.

And it all demands a lot of practice to perform at a high level.

[jetfire]

Appendix carry is about as fast as drawing from an unconcealed open top holster for your first shot, because the gun is just right freakin there. However, for most shooters that carry strong side, there is a difference. The thing is that for you to understand the variance, you have to do a lot of draws over a long period of time and collect a lot of data.

For example, in a given practice session where I'm working on my draw for IDPA, I have been able to hit 1.2 second draws from concealment, which if that was my only data point could lead me to believe that it's just as fast as drawing from non-concealed. The thing that's more important to look at is the average draw to a successful hit at a given distance. You also have to keep the target consistent, because it's easier to get a fast first hit on a USPSA target than an IDPA target, etc.

If you're going to carry concealed, practice from a concealed holster whenever possible. Your draw will be different than if you're using a an open-top Production style rig.

[JHC]

Appendix carry is about as fast as drawing from an unconcealed open top holster for your first shot, because the gun is just right freakin there. However, for most shooters that carry strong side, there is a difference. The thing is that for you to understand the variance, you have to do a lot of draws over a long period of time and collect a lot of data.

For example, in a given practice session where I'm working on my draw for IDPA, I have been able to hit 1.2 second draws from concealment, which if that was my only data point could lead me to believe that it's just as fast as drawing from non-concealed. The thing that's more important to look at is the average draw to a successful hit at a given distance. You also have to keep the target consistent, because it's easier to get a fast first hit on a USPSA target than an IDPA target, etc.

If you're going to carry concealed, practice from a concealed holster whenever possible. Your draw will be different than if you're using a an open-top Production style rig.

Once the pistol has been drawn and press out/punch out is underway . . . I'm not tracking with how the details of the draw are now impacting the first hit on target?

[jetfire]

I can do a sloppy draw to a c-hit a lot faster than I can do a draw to a guaranteed a-zone. When I'm doing something where I'm seriously tracking my first shot draw times, I need to eliminate as many variables as possible. So by saying "only draws that result in good hits count" I'm helping to manage the variable of pushing my speed so fast that I miss.