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Thread: (Small Rant) The trials of EDC'ing handguns for the truly mobile.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I'm sorry for making fun out of your question, but I swear to god the only thing I could think of while reading your post is this, and why on Earth you must engage in your activities such as squatting on stools(?) and doing backbends as a matter of regularity during your day. The only thing I can think of is that you're some kind of performer or something....:

    LOL You've found me out.

    On a serious note, I don't think that retention matters more to you, per say, I think a more true statement is that the vast majority of people overestimate how secure their stuff is to begin with.

    I certainly did, and only pressure-testing has revealed that most CCW equipment on the market is super inadequate at retaining anything if you get into a fight or bail out of a vehicle. This has driven my gear selection as I've lost more pistol and M4 mags, even an IFAK, in training evolutions than I can count. I even lost my pistol one time from a Raven Phantom during room clearing and subsequently dragging a (notionally) wounded Marine, only to have his buddy come up behind me and exclaim, "I got yo Glock, sir!" while reholstering for me as I was applying interventions.

    I don't think I have an answer to your gear quest, but I just wanted to throw that out there......your retention requirements aren't actually different than anyone else's who is carrying a gun, you're just more aware of how important retention actually is. Most people don't ever have that moment of clarity on how typical CCW equipment is lacking sufficient retention, because all they ever do is go about a normal day or range session without shit hitting the fan.
    Thanks for sharing. I think perhaps you give me more credit than I deserve, but it's interesting to compare your experiences in more "dynamic" environments with my own acrobatic struggles.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    Well, two ideas:

    1. Safariland Level III ALS/SLS, forgetting concealment.

    2. Safepacker, made/sold by The Wilderness dot com, which hides/secures the weapon and a reload, but is, itself, not necessarily concealed.
    I'd not heard of the safetypacker before, but that's an interesting set up. I could see if being helpful in some cases.

    I've had the most success, actually, with OWB active retention holsters and going with open or casual concealment. I have a level 3 retention holster, a Safariland paddle holster (578?) and an OWB leather belt slide holster with thumb strap. Of them I feel that the Safariland paddle feels the least robust among them, but it has a lot of convenient features. It's also relatively comfortable, but the paddle doesn't always play nice. The Level 3 is quite good, but just too much for some places where I need at least casual concealment. It's also big enough to actually present some restrictions of its own. I've had the most success with a simple belt slide thumb strap leather holster. I have to be attentive to reholstering, obviously, but it rides close enough to the body with enough retention and little enough leather than it's flexible, reasonably concealable (for my demands on it), and has the least amount of "interference".

    It's still quite a compromise overall, but the best I've been able to manage at this point.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rjohnson4405 View Post
    Like has been covered, I'm not convinced this is possible. With the 360 movement you're talking about I'm not sure I could conceal a credit card without putting things in the prison wallet.

    Since you probably don't want to do that, the only thing I could come up with is something like plus a super thin retention holster and velcro holding the whole in place rather than just friction:

    https://www.cabelas.com/product/reg-...B&gclsrc=aw.ds
    I actually can't really conceal a credit card. :-) I did upgrade recently to a slim front pocket wallet that has made my life significantly better in the comfort and bulk area compared to my previous wallet. It's not exactly concealed or retained though, and there have been days where the contents of my pockets have all just....flown the coop, as it were. It's not a very serious thing for me to have to pick up my wallet, keys, knife, flashlight, or other such things when they go flying, and I can take those out of my pocket and hand them to someone I trust before doing something in the worst case. I can't really do that with my gun.

    That shirt is quite an interesting design. If I do pick up a pocket pistol, I might have to give something like that a try.

  4. #24
    An enjoyable post! Picturing Gumby busting out Chinese Splits and morphing into Chen TCC postures at a pace that generates "G-forces." Nice!
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Oh and yes, you need to stop jumping around all the time. Cut back on the coffee. LOL
    Haha, just in case anyone thinks I'm a circus performer who carries while on the tight rope or something, I do actually have some legitimate (to me) excuses for my behavior. :-)

    1. Part of it is really my recognition that getting into a fight might require that level of activity and impact, and I want to have a solution for my gear.

    2. Health and comfort are part of it. If a gun is doing long term damage to my spine, or nerves, or if I'm reducing circulation to my body, or the like, that's a problem. I believe firmly in retaining my mobility as a part of my overall practice of health. To me, that means not just reserving a part of the day for "motion" and staying more or less static for the rest of the day. ANd most people I know are remarkably static even in times when they are "working out". People just don't have free range of motion in a lot of cases, and I'm convinced this isn't particularly healthy.

    3. Kids. I'm often playing with kids, rough housing around, or building snow forts, quinzhees, or the like. Or maybe I'm out climbing trees with them, or helping them with their gymnastics when they ask for it, or anything else (kids will have some new game all the time). And in many of these cases, it's the spontaneous capacity for play that is really important. I might only have a short window of opportunity to bring a bit of joy into that kids life through that sort of work. Being able to be spontaneous in that way while still taking my responsibility to protect them seriously is important to me.

    4. Living and working and spending an evening where I can actually be free to move and not cramp up is pretty important to stress relief. I consider it a bonus if I am able to do that while also carrying, because otherwise I might not be carrying for most of the day, and in that case, I'm not prepared to protect those around me who matter to me.

    5. Kids, again. When rough housing with kids, retention becomes seriously important. It's good to be able to hug someone without printing, but it's better to be able to hug someone without them accidently banging their forehead into your gun or accidently popping it out of its holster. It's especially good if three or more of them can be climbing all over you and you can still retain your gun well and have control of things. For a lot of these situations, if I don't have a good firearm solution, it means either neglecting to participate (not a very good option), or neglecting to be prepared to defend them. Fortunately, most of the time in these situation I'm in an "open carry" friendly or tolerable environment, which has been the saving grace here.

    Anyways, thanks for the ideas everyone, I've got a few things to try. I still suspect that the best thing is just to accept less concealment and stick with OWB strong side carry with active retention.
    Last edited by arcfide; 01-26-2019 at 12:14 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by FNFAN View Post
    An enjoyable post! Picturing Gumby busting out Chinese Splits and morphing into Chen TCC postures at a pace that generates "G-forces." Nice!
    Haha, now that's a picture. Just to be clear, it's not like those G forces are coming around every day. It's just that they can happen, and I don't want to be another example of that FBI dancing ND.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    5. Kids, again. When rough housing with kids, retention becomes seriously important. It's good to be able to hug someone without printing, but it's better to be able to hug someone without them accidently banging their forehead into your gun or accidently popping it out of its holster. It's especially good if three or more of them can be climbing all over you and you can still retain your gun well and have control of things. For a lot of these situations, if I don't have a good firearm solution, it means either neglecting to participate (not a very good option), or neglecting to be prepared to defend them. Fortunately, most of the time in these situation I'm in an "open carry" friendly or tolerable environment, which has been the saving grace here.
    I understand fully - I carry AIWB whenever I have pants on. I don't talk to anyone that I don't have to about it, and I didn't even let my kids know, until they started occasionally eating Glock slide thru my shirt, and not really understanding what just happened, and why that hurt. Same thing happened while staffing church events with elementary age kids, and I eventually changed to stand at a "ready" with at least one hand over my crotch, to be a bumper over the steel ...

  8. #28

  9. #29
    Not being rude just direct...the answer to your question is to vrow up and act like an adult

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    This being a rant and all, I realize that putting up with a mousegun might just be one of those things I have to do, but I admit to finding that deeply unsatisfying on a number of levels. It greatly increases training difficulty, equipment selection, and the overall "thought" that has to go in to getting ready for a day.

    I appreciate you listening to the rant. I'm largely just enjoying the comedy of having problems with EDC'ing a gun because I'm too active, rather than not active enough (it's a common trope among some that gun guys are fat and out of shape). I think I will give a shoulder holster a try just to see if it grants me enough freedom and consistency of access. If it does, then I'll probably be willing to dress around that in order to get an extra level of movement freedom during the day or when I need to conceal things. And if I can find a pocket gun that I like well enough, maybe I'll throw that into the mix.
    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    Re: shoulder holsters, I have found that the horizontal style with a figure 8 harness is the most comfortable, with a Galco Miami Classic being a good choice. Don’t use belt tie downs. Adjust the shoulder straps so the holster and magazine pouch are high enough up on your sides so that they do not move when you bend forward, but not so high that the lower portion is being pulled outward.
    Upthread you stated that you'd picked up a shoulder rig to try, but did not specify which one, nor make/model of weapon. They are not all the same,nor are they equal.
    I would suggest that you give Sam Andrews' Solo and/or Monarch shoulder rigs a look.

    http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

    I had a Solo for a Kahr that worked quite well under a sport coat, partially zipped leather flight jacket, and even loose-fitting tucked-in button up shirts.
    As Bill stated, as high in your armpit with without restricting movement or cutting off circulation works best.




    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    I've had the most success, actually, with OWB active retention holsters and going with open or casual concealment. I have a level 3 retention holster, a Safariland paddle holster (578?) and an OWB leather belt slide holster with thumb strap. Of them I feel that the Safariland paddle feels the least robust among them, but it has a lot of convenient features. It's also relatively comfortable, but the paddle doesn't always play nice. The Level 3 is quite good, but just too much for some places where I need at least casual concealment. It's also big enough to actually present some restrictions of its own. I've had the most success with a simple belt slide thumb strap leather holster. I have to be attentive to reholstering, obviously, but it rides close enough to the body with enough retention and little enough leather than it's flexible, reasonably concealable (for my demands on it), and has the least amount of "interference".

    It's still quite a compromise overall, but the best I've been able to manage at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    Haha, just in case anyone thinks I'm a circus performer who carries while on the tight rope or something, I do actually have some legitimate (to me) excuses for my behavior. :-)

    1. Part of it is really my recognition that getting into a fight might require that level of activity and impact, and I want to have a solution for my gear.

    2. Health and comfort are part of it. If a gun is doing long term damage to my spine, or nerves, or if I'm reducing circulation to my body, or the like, that's a problem. I believe firmly in retaining my mobility as a part of my overall practice of health. To me, that means not just reserving a part of the day for "motion" and staying more or less static for the rest of the day. ANd most people I know are remarkably static even in times when they are "working out". People just don't have free range of motion in a lot of cases, and I'm convinced this isn't particularly healthy.

    3. Kids. I'm often playing with kids, rough housing around, or building snow forts, quinzhees, or the like. Or maybe I'm out climbing trees with them, or helping them with their gymnastics when they ask for it, or anything else (kids will have some new game all the time). And in many of these cases, it's the spontaneous capacity for play that is really important. I might only have a short window of opportunity to bring a bit of joy into that kids life through that sort of work. Being able to be spontaneous in that way while still taking my responsibility to protect them seriously is important to me.

    4. Living and working and spending an evening where I can actually be free to move and not cramp up is pretty important to stress relief. I consider it a bonus if I am able to do that while also carrying, because otherwise I might not be carrying for most of the day, and in that case, I'm not prepared to protect those around me who matter to me.

    5. Kids, again. When rough housing with kids, retention becomes seriously important. It's good to be able to hug someone without printing, but it's better to be able to hug someone without them accidently banging their forehead into your gun or accidently popping it out of its holster. It's especially good if three or more of them can be climbing all over you and you can still retain your gun well and have control of things. For a lot of these situations, if I don't have a good firearm solution, it means either neglecting to participate (not a very good option), or neglecting to be prepared to defend them. Fortunately, most of the time in these situation I'm in an "open carry" friendly or tolerable environment, which has been the saving grace here.

    Anyways, thanks for the ideas everyone, I've got a few things to try. I still suspect that the best thing is just to accept less concealment and stick with OWB strong side carry with active retention.
    An OWB holster option you might explore is a Kramer horsehide pancake belt holster:

    https://www.kramerleather.com/collec.../belt-scabbard

    I once had one for a G27 that I'd acquired 2nd hand, the gun still "snapped" into the holster like it was Kydex instead of leather, and it was very comfortable and secure. The retention was far better than any thumb-break holster that I've used.
    Last edited by Chuck Whitlock; 01-27-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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