"Knives don't work well and you will go to prison no matter what!"

[Cory]

I'm not going to say that Varg Freeborn is the end all be all of knife information, but to discount everything he says on the topic seems fool hardy.

His perspective is unique because he did grow up among the criminal element and witnessed a vast amount of crime. The fact is he has actually used a knife defensively, gone through the legal aftermath, and then witnessed (and was the target of) even more blade/knife/shiv attacks.

His experience doesn't mean he has all the answers, but it does mean his perspective and information is worth consideration. For what it's worth he has mentioned that he still carries a knife. I don't think he is against it rather that people need to be fully aware of what lethal level violence with a knife is going to be like, what legal battles can cost, and the serious nature of defense.

I'm more apt to pay attention to someone who has experience, and followed it up with a lot of training than someone who speaks academically based on their perception. That's not a slam at offering real statiatics, they do offer value. Declaritive statements about physiological and psychological stops seem completely void of context and assume way to much for me to buy into.

-Cory

[BehindBlueI's]

In the majority of knife encounter footage that I've seen or stories I've heard about, people tend to repeatedly stab to the lower abdomen/gut area.

I've not thought about it much, but for defensive uses of a knife in my case files, this is true. Offense still has gut wounds but does have more neck, chest, and back injuries. Almost nobody gets stabbed in the face, but if they did you can be almost certain it's a domestic.

Side note, I always liked stabbing cases because the interviews were interesting. There was usually more emotion and a back story behind a good stabbing. Shootings were often just business. Stabbings, though, they were often very personal messages being communicated via knife.

[BillSWPA]

I'm not going to say that Varg Freeborn is the end all be all of knife information, but to discount everything he says on the topic seems fool hardy.

His perspective is unique because he did grow up among the criminal element and witnessed a vast amount of crime. The fact is he has actually used a knife defensively, gone through the legal aftermath, and then witnessed (and was the target of) even more blade/knife/shiv attacks.

His experience doesn't mean he has all the answers, but it does mean his perspective and information is worth consideration. For what it's worth he has mentioned that he still carries a knife. I don't think he is against it rather that people need to be fully aware of what lethal level violence with a knife is going to be like, what legal battles can cost, and the serious nature of defense.

I'm more apt to pay attention to someone who has experience, and followed it up with a lot of training than someone who speaks academically based on their perception. That's not a slam at offering real statiatics, they do offer value. Declaritive statements about physiological and psychological stops seem completely void of context and assume way to much for me to buy into.

-Cory

He has the absolute best comments I have ever seen re: tried by 12 v. carried by 6. In summary, going to jail is like dying but still being here to watch the world go on without you. So, think very seriously before deciding that tried by 12 or carried by 6 are your only options.

I think he has some good points re: knife use, but object to the broad characterization of knives as useless for defense.

[Warped Mindless]

I wouldn’t call myself an expert...but I’ve done and seen a few things so here goes...

Carotid artery
Brachial artery
Femoral artery
Popliteal artery

Heart

Eyes

CNS

Good luck hitting those in an entangled fight.

I treated a fellow earlier on in my career who took a butcher knife to the chest into the lung, and a slash across the face that went from his left eye, cut his nose in half, and cut both lips open. He still managed to murder his girlfriend after all that.


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Working security I have been in my share of entangled fights and while I haven't had to stab someone I have been able to punch people in the face during all of them. If I wanted to use a knife then instead of a punch to the face it would have been a stab to the face (or throat if I wanted to aim lower). I imagine that would have done some pretty extensive damage.

I've seen many bigger guys start fights with smaller guys. During the fights the smaller guy will often land at least one strike to the bigger guys face. It doesn't usually do much damage but they do land one. I always think, "if they one strike was a stab and not a punch things may be different for the little guy." Of course, you have to be trained enough to deploy the knife during a struggle under pressure; not always an easy task for sure.

[TCFD273]

Working security I have been in my share of entangled fights and while I haven't had to stab someone I have been able to punch people in the face during all of them. If I wanted to use a knife then instead of a punch to the face it would have been a stab to the face (or throat if I wanted to aim lower). I imagine that would have done some pretty extensive damage.

I've seen many bigger guys start fights with smaller guys. During the fights the smaller guy will often land at least one strike to the bigger guys face. It doesn't usually do much damage but they do land one. I always think, "if they one strike was a stab and not a punch things may be different for the little guy." Of course, you have to be trained enough to deploy the knife during a struggle under pressure; not always an easy task for sure.

After this I’m bowing out, knife fighting always reminds me of 45 vs 9

Pull a knife out in a fist fight, where there is not a reasonable threat to your life, your going to jail...even after you get knocked out. I know, bc I have scars on my scapula and left bicep. I didn’t run when I saw the knife, it actually made me go after him twice as hard. I was much younger, dumber, and faster then.



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[RevolverRob]

Good luck hitting those in an entangled fight.

Let's do remember that many folks here train regularly in entangled fighting and some also teach entangled fighting and targeting.

I'm not saying that those areas you described are easy to hit, that are not necessarily easy to hit. But I can say, truthfully, that I believe you can train to manipulate an opponent and target those critical areas in an entangled fight. It might not always work and it might not always be pretty, but practice and training can allow a shift from "lucky shot" to "relatively calculated success" quite quickly. It's sort of like algebra, anyone who can do basic arithmetic can learn it, but it takes practice to remember how to do it under pressure, you might not always get it right, but you increase your likelihood of getting it right through practice.

We have to remember that no weapon, be it gun, knife, stick, fist, or high explosive is a panacea nor is it always 100% effective. You can do everything right and still not win the fight.

[Old Man Winter]

Cemeteries are full of people turned room temperature from one hit with a blade and there's more than a few people walking around after multiple gunshot wounds. Does that signal bullets don't work as well as you think?

Regarding legal issues; In Minnesota you must meet four criteria to be legally justified in using Lethal Force. The last item is no lessor force would suffice. To limit your exposure in this state it's recommended you don't carry any kind of blade or other defensive tools while carrying a gun. The powers that be expect you to progress through your tools to solve the problem.

[Lon]

Cemeteries are full of people turned room temperature from one hit with a blade and there's more than a few people walking around after multiple gunshot wounds. Does that signal bullets don't work as well as you think?

Regarding legal issues; In Minnesota you must meet four criteria to be legally justified in using Lethal Force. The last item is no lessor force would suffice. To limit your exposure in this state it's recommended you don't carry any kind of blade or other defensive tools while carrying a gun. The powers that be expect you to progress through your tools to solve the problem.

That’s ignorant. Guns and knives are both deadly weapons = lethal force.

Anyway, 3 outta the 4 homicides this year have been knife related. Like BBI said, a lot more personal.

[43Under]

That’s ignorant. Guns and knives are both deadly weapons = lethal force.

Very much ignorant. If that is an accurate summation of Minnesota's laws then they are no different than anywhere else. And, as Lon said, a knife is deadly force just like a gun.

[BillSWPA]

Cemeteries are full of people turned room temperature from one hit with a blade and there's more than a few people walking around after multiple gunshot wounds. Does that signal bullets don't work as well as you think?

Regarding legal issues; In Minnesota you must meet four criteria to be legally justified in using Lethal Force. The last item is no lessor force would suffice. To limit your exposure in this state it's recommended you don't carry any kind of blade or other defensive tools while carrying a gun. The powers that be expect you to progress through your tools to solve the problem.

The last time I used my knife in an emergency, it was to remove a ribbon that my son had managed to get twisted around his finger tightly enough that it was not easily undone and was cutting off his circulation. I have also used it to cut him out of a car seat with a jammed (later recalled) harness latch.

If you have kids, they probably love escalators. I am aware of an incident wherein a kid lost a foot when a shoelace got caught in an escalator. I have read that there are 10,000-15,000 serious injuries every year from clothing getting caught in escalators.

I am not sure where the advice of not carrying a knife comes from, but I disagree.



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