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Thread: Glock Gen 3 vs Gen 5 25 yard precision testing - AmmoSquared Youtube

  1. #1

    Glock Gen 3 vs Gen 5 25 yard precision testing - AmmoSquared Youtube

    I've recently found a youtube channel that has been conducting ransom rest accuracy testing with a Gen 3 vs a Gen 5 Glock and many types of ammunition.

    I've found it to be very interesting and recommend checking it out. Specifically I found a post by the manufacturer of the Ransom Rest regarding the fact that many semi auto's throw a flyer on the first manually loaded round. I remember Mas Ayoob talking about this in an article once, but I was hoping PF.com may have some ideas of why this occurs? Mas had a name for it if my memory serves me right, but I can't remember what it was... something like 4+1 syndrome or 9+1 syndrome meaning you get a flyer the first shot.

    Found this video and read comments wow this is good stuff.. and Jimhans1 is correct but if We can elaborate. We have learned also for basically all semi auto rifle and pistol when you hand rack or even drop the slide release the forces applied to seat the round is not the same as when round fires and when firearm auto cycles. You only see this repeatable in a proper test in a Ransom Rest. Cold bore shot yes but even after 16 rounds it will still do it to a degree. Therefore it is the manually loaded round. Each firearm and ammo combination is bit different but we have seen consistency in this, sometime the firearm and round will throw that first round repeatedly to the 9 clock position some combinations throw it to the 6 or 3. quite interesting some at one inch some 2". We don't see this in revolvers or bolt action. some operators lift machine off battery position in recoil direction to throw first round above target in the berm when testing semi autos. That's only if you can if your berm is high enough. You can in some situations with care, leave last round in chamber from the settling rounds and carefully change mags and continue your test. If you have to change target make sure rest is pointing up and not down range. Care and safety is always needed around firearms of course. This method can also be recommended because we have also had a few semi autos on the last round prints slightly different as well, possibly due to slide locks back and vibration, forces or barrel pressure, or gas cycle. it is interesting. Please comment as well. And I love what AmmoSquared is doing here.I myself like to know what those flyer rounds do and in most cases when you find the right ammo to firearm combo, the flyer, hand rack round can sometimes become minor or miniscule. It still may be a flyer but may not be 1" off it may only repeat at half inch off. And knowing which way that firearm with that ammo may fly to is very valuable info. Thank you great video AmmoSquared

    It explains it pretty well, but does this occur even when firing offhand? I can't imagine Bullseye shooters could tolerate the first round from their string being that far off. Any thoughts/info is appreciated.
    Last edited by SecondHandSmoke; 01-16-2019 at 02:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Their Gen 3 sample held better groups with the 147 American Eagle FMJ and the 147 HST in comparison to the Gen 5.

    With 115 gr. Speer Blazer, the Gen 5 held better group than the Gen 3. That ammo has never shot well for me in my Gen 3 19's

    Speer Lawman 115 shot an 8 inch group with the Gen 3, and a sub 3 inch group with the Gen 5. This ammo has also never seemed to work well in my Gen 3 19.
    Last edited by SecondHandSmoke; 01-16-2019 at 02:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SecondHandSmoke View Post
    I've recently found a youtube channel that has been conducting ransom rest accuracy testing with a Gen 3 vs a Gen 5 Glock and many types of ammunition.

    I've found it to be very interesting and recommend checking it out. Specifically I found a post by the manufacturer of the Ransom Rest regarding the fact that many semi auto's throw a flyer on the first manually loaded round. I remember Mas Ayoob talking about this in an article once, but I was hoping PF.com may have some ideas of why this occurs? Mas had a name for it if my memory serves me right, but I can't remember what it was... something like 4+1 syndrome or 9+1 syndrome meaning you get a flyer the first shot.

    Found this video and read comments wow this is good stuff.. and Jimhans1 is correct but if We can elaborate. We have learned also for basically all semi auto rifle and pistol when you hand rack or even drop the slide release the forces applied to seat the round is not the same as when round fires and when firearm auto cycles. You only see this repeatable in a proper test in a Ransom Rest. Cold bore shot yes but even after 16 rounds it will still do it to a degree. Therefore it is the manually loaded round. Each firearm and ammo combination is bit different but we have seen consistency in this, sometime the firearm and round will throw that first round repeatedly to the 9 clock position some combinations throw it to the 6 or 3. quite interesting some at one inch some 2". We don't see this in revolvers or bolt action. some operators lift machine off battery position in recoil direction to throw first round above target in the berm when testing semi autos. That's only if you can if your berm is high enough. You can in some situations with care, leave last round in chamber from the settling rounds and carefully change mags and continue your test. If you have to change target make sure rest is pointing up and not down range. Care and safety is always needed around firearms of course. This method can also be recommended because we have also had a few semi autos on the last round prints slightly different as well, possibly due to slide locks back and vibration, forces or barrel pressure, or gas cycle. it is interesting. Please comment as well. And I love what AmmoSquared is doing here.I myself like to know what those flyer rounds do and in most cases when you find the right ammo to firearm combo, the flyer, hand rack round can sometimes become minor or miniscule. It still may be a flyer but may not be 1" off it may only repeat at half inch off. And knowing which way that firearm with that ammo may fly to is very valuable info. Thank you great video AmmoSquared

    It explains it pretty well, but does this occur even when firing offhand? I can't imagine Bullseye shooters could tolerate the first round from their string being that far off. Any thoughts/info is appreciated.
    I remember this from when I shot bullseye. Experienced shooters would hold off for the first shot. I know that sounds extreme, but back when they shot revolvers, they knew which chamber in the cylinder was the most accurate and would use it to shoot their entire slow-fire string.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  4. #4
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    I've heard it and suspected it from time to time but can't hold to Ransom consistency to prove or disprove. When the whole group is good, did I errr and throw the flyer into the group?

    If it happens it may be gun dependent too. I suspect I've seen it more in my 9mm Operator, heavily customized to a hard fit by Dave Sams but not every time. I should ask him btw. But I don't recall seeing it obvious in the .45's, an LB Operator and a full Sams' hard fit gun.

    With those or with Glocks, my warm ups often start with a cold 5 shot freestyle to a B8 at 25. I often see a "10" right off the bat. But sometimes a flyer when I thought the press was good. Just not enough repeatable consistency to know and that bugs me.

    I superstitiously tend to try and chamber the first round of a slow fire group with a vigorous slingshot vs slide release.

    Maddening mystery.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  5. #5
    You also have to bear in mind that setting up and running a Ransom Rest are skill sets on their own. You don't just drop a pistol into one and start shooting tiny groups.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  6. #6
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    You also have to bear in mind that setting up and running a Ransom Rest are skill sets on their own. You don't just drop a pistol into one and start shooting tiny groups.


    Okie John
    ^^This^^

    Also, with a RR the slide may not exactly return to the same spot as the frame does. Introducing another variable.
    Taking a break from social media.

  7. #7
    I saw the first round flyer enough in shooting a Glock at 100 yards, that I started shooting the first manually cycled round at something closer. Reported it here on PF at the time, and we have discussed it subsequently.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #8
    PensFan
    Member

    Glock Gen 3 vs Gen 5 25 yard precision testing - AmmoSquared Youtube

    Ransom rests suck. Plain and simple. Even under the best conditions the inconsistency is often mind boggling. I wouldn’t consider any results using one definitive no matter what.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by PensFan; 01-16-2019 at 09:25 PM.

  9. #9
    We have a large sample of Gen 3, 4 and 5 Glock 34 pistols, and the Gen 5 34 pistols are measurably and significantly more accurate than Gen 3/4. All our Gen 5 pistols are quite accurate.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I saw the first round flyer enough in shooting a Glock at 100 yards, that I started shooting the first manually cycled round at something closer. Reported it here on PF at the time, and we have discussed it subsequently.
    As a side note, I have not experienced this with HK pistols.
    Taking a break from social media.

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