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Thread: Selecting a Sighting System for the Shotgun

  1. #1
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    Selecting a Sighting System for the Shotgun

    This will end up being a sort of horrible, rambling, stream of consciousness post before it is over; mainly because I can’t ever seem to do things the easy way. You’ve been warned…

    Short version: I have Mossberg 835 with an 18.5” barrel (well, I will have the barrel after our dear leaders in D.C. get things moving again – but hopefully soon) that needs iron sights to replace the bead. Once finished, this shotgun will be *the* long gun for defensive use around the castle – the research that I have done seems to indicate that a ghost ring/iron sight set-up is to be preferred over the bead in defensive applications. I would like to have some tritium on at least the front sight. The question is, what sighting system should I get; and what attachment methods are acceptable and what is preferred?

    Thus far, the contenders are:
    The factory Mossberg arrangement: https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...-prod9474.aspx

    Scattergun Technologies Track-Lock front with the LPA BAR rear: https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...prod41872.aspx https://www.fusionfirearms.com/lpa-a...picatinny-rail

    Trak-Lock with this rear sight (would require drilling and tapping the receiver): https://www.midwayusa.com/product/47...uns-steel-blue

    XS Sight Systems: https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...prod19562.aspx

    The factory Mossberg rig seems just okay, with the main benefit being that the rear sight will mate up with the existing threaded holes in the receiver. The front sight looks okay, but lacks tritium; the rear sight set-up looks a little busy and maybe fragile; too, the ghost ring is pretty huge. I dunno.

    I am leaning hard toward the Scattergun Technology front with either the clamp-on rear or maybe the screw-on rear which would require drilling and tapping the receiver. https://www.fusionfirearms.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=shotgun

    The XS Sight Systems is mostly plug and play, but looks like it could get torn off the gun in rugged use.

    What I *really* want is a Vang Comp system, but I will throw an Aimpoint T2 on there before I drop five bills on iron sights. That said, I talked with a local gunsmith who flat refused to have anything to do with soldering a front sight to a barrel. He was okay with drilling and tapping and talked about mounting a Remington 700 (I think he said) front sight that way. I would then still have to figure out the rear sight.

    As far as mounting the front sight, obviously soldering/brazing would be best, but would an appropriate epoxy hold up? What about drilling and tapping?

    The final concern I have is having the front and rears across different brands/styles regulate to the POA okay. The Mossberg rear looks like it has a lot of adjustment, so I guess it has that going for it.

    I’m not super interested in throwing a red dot on the shotgun because I am then introducing batteries and electronics to what ought be an incredibly robust and reliable weapon system – but I could be wrong about that. (Also, it does seem like having a red dot would also make it less friendly to load through the ejection port, but I have not actually tried that out.)

    Lastly, I will be using this receiver as a field gun (primarily ducks) as well. I will swap to the original barrel for field use, so no problem there, but I would like to be able to go slick on the receiver without a bunch of drama too. Note: I get a ton more rounds through the shotgun in the duck boat every year than I will ever get in any tactical shotgun training. Part of my schtick is to use the same gun in the field as for defensive use. This lets me build my muscle memories while vetting (if wearing somewhat) the actual gun. I am probably more adamant about this than I should be.

    Now, the easy button for all this would be to go buy the 870 of my choice with the sighting system of my choice. They exist in relative abundance. My first two shotguns were 870’s and the shotgun I have shot the longest/most was an 11-87. Two things: First, I am not a fan of the lifter occluding the loading port, nor the way the 870 can get tied up if short-stroked on the pump. The Mossberg has neither problem. I chose the 835 because the fact that it takes 3 ½” shells provides a little more room in both holes when it comes time to stuff it full of shells; and the magazine loading port is very roomy and open with the Mossberg design. It’s not quite throwing a hot dog down a hallway, but it ain’t bad. (The 835 takes the Magpul stock too which is very nice.) I am several hunts in with the 835 and so far, the worst thing that has gone on has been spitting out a couple of shells through the mag loading port when I short-stroked it. But that was earlier in the season and I am doing better of late. I am *really* enjoying this shotgun.

    It irks me that Mossberg spend time and effort on stupid neck-beard marketing gimmicks like barrel porting (which straight sucks in a duck blind by the way), chainsaw whatever, and Flex stock systems. Why they can’t offer things like more barrel/sighting selections, Magpul furniture versions, reasonable magazine extensions, and safety button upgrades is beyond me. I believe they have a very solid design (a bit more friendly and optimized than the 870), and with a few tweaks, they could really compete with Remington. Alas, they seem to be catering to the lowest common denominator of shooter. It’s a shame. If Kel-Tecs worked reliably, they would be the Kel-Tec of the shotgun world.

    So, with all that, if anyone has any insight as to how best to organize the 18.5” barrel for home defense (shooting 00 Flite Control almost exclusively (until some #1 comes available when you people don’t scarf it all up – you guys are friggin’ animals…)), that would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    The Mossberg rear GRS is solid and very easy to adjust. I like the way they look too but that just might have to do with the nostalgia of personal issued fighting guns.

    Maybe find just the Mossberg rear and a banded xs front sight.

    Cylinder choke and 00 flight control

    And maybe just use the GRS for the birds
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    Last edited by 03RN; 01-14-2019 at 09:37 AM.

  3. #3
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    If the gun currently wears a vent-rib barrel, I'd cut it back to you desired length and fit it with turkey sights from Truglo. I have these on the vent rib of my wife's 20-gauge 870 Youth. They work very well. In fact the primary reason I am a vent-rib shotgun barrel fan is that you have a much higher number of sighting options, because of turkey guns and/or it is very easy to mount a red-dot on the gun. Which would be my second choice, a Docter or Burris Fast-Fire mounted to the rib would work quite well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tensaw View Post
    I’m not super interested in throwing a red dot on the shotgun because I am then introducing batteries and electronics to what ought be an incredibly robust and reliable weapon system – but I could be wrong about that. (Also, it does seem like having a red dot would also make it less friendly to load through the ejection port, but I have not actually tried that out.)

    Lastly, I will be using this receiver as a field gun (primarily ducks) as well. I will swap to the original barrel for field use, so no problem there, but I would like to be able to go slick on the receiver without a bunch of drama too. Note: I get a ton more rounds through the shotgun in the duck boat every year than I will ever get in any tactical shotgun training. Part of my schtick is to use the same gun in the field as for defensive use. This lets me build my muscle memories while vetting (if wearing somewhat) the actual gun.
    I would seriously consider putting a red dot optic on your shotgun. It has all of the advantages of a red dot on carbines, e.g., faster sight picture acquisition, especially in low level light. The latest generation of micro red dots, like the Aimpoint Micro, are plenty reliable and durable enough for life and death purposes, and if you use a low mount like the Aridus CROM, you will still be able to use irons in the unlikely event that the optic fails.

    The red dot also works pretty well for small flying objects. I haven’t tried shooting live birds with it yet, but it seems to work quite well on clays. I personally find it easier to lead moving targets with greater precision with the dot than with the bead/rib, especially on rising flying targets.

    Red dot on an 870 at a sporting clays course this past weekend:






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #5
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    @03RN - Thanks for the input on the Mossberg GRS. That actually takes care of (literally) half of my issue (the easy half, but half nonetheless). That thing looks like it has a wide range of adjustability which will help when I go off-road with the front sight choice.

    @RevolverRob - So the 18'5 barrel is a plain barrel with a bead - no vent rib. I have toyed around with the notion of having a longer vent rib barrel cut to length and then having it threaded for chokes. One problem with that is my special flower 835 has barrels overbored to 10 gauge so I am not sure if the ID would work out for choke tubes or even a fixed choke. That said, being overbored like that might play really well with the Flite Control wad. I looked at various set-ups with vent ribs from the 3-Gun world. Fairly innovative stuff going on with pistol sights, but I'm not sure that is what this particular shotgun needs.

    @nalesq - I am willing to be convinced on the red dot. I actually bought the pic rail and mounted it to the receiver a couple of weeks ago, along with a PA red dot I have had for a while. I was going to try it in the duck blind - then I punked out. The season is open until the end of the month. I might give it a go if I get a window where I can sight it in. Still, the whole ethos of the gauge is sort of low tech - it is the sledge hammer of the gun world. This may be especially true of pumps (as opposed to, say, the 1301 which is pretty elegant for a shotgun). One does not dress up a sledge hammer, you put on some gloves and get to swinging. That said, my eyes are going downhill pretty quick so I am sure the red dot will make an appearance at some point.

    Oh, I did some more online searching today and I think I am going to be able to find someone who can solder a front sight on without undue drama. I was/am hoping for someone local, but I will mail the barrel off if I have to. If anyone has a suggestion for a gunsmith who can do a good job, in a reasonable time frame, for reasonable money, please advise.
    Last edited by Tensaw; 01-14-2019 at 08:05 PM.

  6. #6
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Ethos smethos
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  7. #7
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    While one may recognize that a 10-pound sledge hammer with an Ash handle has been an effective tool for centuries - there is still room to acknowledge and even use a fiberglass anti-vibration handled sledge. One will let you swing harder for longer and the other is just a sledgehammer.

    It might also be the case that the shotgun has classically been used as a blunt force tool, but it actually more capable than previously recognized for precision work.

    Finally, if one has never “cut” something with a hammer - then one hasn’t tried to find the limits of their tool.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tensaw View Post
    @03RN - Thanks for the input on the Mossberg GRS. That actually takes care of (literally) half of my issue (the easy half, but half nonetheless). That thing looks like it has a wide range of adjustability which will help when I go off-road with the front sight choice.

    @RevolverRob - So the 18'5 barrel is a plain barrel with a bead - no vent rib. I have toyed around with the notion of having a longer vent rib barrel cut to length and then having it threaded for chokes. One problem with that is my special flower 835 has barrels overbored to 10 gauge so I am not sure if the ID would work out for choke tubes or even a fixed choke. That said, being overbored like that might play really well with the Flite Control wad. I looked at various set-ups with vent ribs from the 3-Gun world. Fairly innovative stuff going on with pistol sights, but I'm not sure that is what this particular shotgun needs.

    @nalesq - I am willing to be convinced on the red dot. I actually bought the pic rail and mounted it to the receiver a couple of weeks ago, along with a PA red dot I have had for a while. I was going to try it in the duck blind - then I punked out. The season is open until the end of the month. I might give it a go if I get a window where I can sight it in. Still, the whole ethos of the gauge is sort of low tech - it is the sledge hammer of the gun world. This may be especially true of pumps (as opposed to, say, the 1301 which is pretty elegant for a shotgun). One does not dress up a sledge hammer, you put on some gloves and get to swinging. That said, my eyes are going downhill pretty quick so I am sure the red dot will make an appearance at some point.

    Oh, I did some more online searching today and I think I am going to be able to find someone who can solder a front sight on without undue drama. I was/am hoping for someone local, but I will mail the barrel off if I have to. If anyone has a suggestion for a gunsmith who can do a good job, in a reasonable time frame, for reasonable money, please advise.
    Based on 20 plus years running “fleets” of 870 police variants as both a user, instructor and armorer I think you are way over estimating the reliability and particularly durability of pump shotguns and way under estimating the durability of high quality RDS like the Aimpoint micro.

    That said 870s with the flex tab system are just as easily cleared when short stroked as Mossbergs.


    There is nothing wrong with good Mossbergs like the 590 series but Sporting guns adapted to defensive use are ALWAYS a compromise.

    Anytime you try and use “one gun for everything” you are going to have to make compromises. That said, you are making this WAY too complicated. For many years my primary personal shotgun was an 18” rifle sighted Benelli M1 with a spare 26” barrel. If you want a one gun for everything you need to stick with barrel mounted sight soloutions. Rifle sights on the barrel or one of the new vent rib mounted Aimpoint S-1s on your fighting barrel will leave the receiver usable with your hunting barrel.

    https://www.aimpoint.com/product/aimpoint-micro-s-1/
    Last edited by HCM; 01-15-2019 at 12:37 AM.

  9. #9
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    So I am picking up what you guys are laying down. I will look toward putting a dot on the gauge. And yeah, I am over-thinking this but with the notion of trying to optimize this shotgun for the intended use. Thanks for the reality check ya’ll!

  10. #10
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    I hope posting on this older thread isn't an issue. Vang Comp recently posted a new option they are testing before it is brought to production. They now have a RMR mount that is silver soldered to the barrel. They say this allows for easier port loading over the top. What are people's thoughts on this method for adding an optic? how does this compare to sight mounts on the receiver like the CROM from Aridus Industries? I have attached a photo from Vang Comp's instagram. I appreciate any input because I am looking at sight options for my new 870 Police Magnum, thanks.
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