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Thread: pistol-training.com 2011 Endurance Test Gun

  1. #571
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Ferrari's definitely do. For a couple hundred thou.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  2. #572
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    This thread is starting to remind me of the difference between people who do woodworking with hand tools instead of power tools. Which is interesting because I've always thought of a Glock or M&P as the ultimate expression of gun-as-tool: no frills, nothing that isn't actually needed for function. Yes they get the job done, and at a reasonable price, much like a $20 hammer. But, there will always be a market for the higher-end tools that cost much more, while not necessarily doing the job any better.

    Its the difference between this: http://http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-51-621-16-Ounce-Fiberglass-Hammer/dp/B000VSMJCS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343434626&sr=8-1&keywords=hammer

    and this : http://http://www.amazon.com/Stiletto-TBM14RMC-Mini-14-Titanium-Replaceable/dp/B002UQUZYS/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1343434654&sr=1-2&keywords=hammer

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanH View Post
    This thread is starting to remind me of the difference between people who do woodworking with hand tools instead of power tools. Which is interesting because I've always thought of a Glock or M&P as the ultimate expression of gun-as-tool: no frills, nothing that isn't actually needed for function. Yes they get the job done, and at a reasonable price, much like a $20 hammer. But, there will always be a market for the higher-end tools that cost much more, while not necessarily doing the job any better.

    Its the difference between this: http://http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-51-621-16-Ounce-Fiberglass-Hammer/dp/B000VSMJCS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343434626&sr=8-1&keywords=hammer

    and this : http://http://www.amazon.com/Stiletto-TBM14RMC-Mini-14-Titanium-Replaceable/dp/B002UQUZYS/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1343434654&sr=1-2&keywords=hammer
    Nice. Resonates. I can't build squat with hand tools. I'm a duct taping suvanabee. And a Glock guy. Data point for your theory.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  4. #574
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    [QUOTE=ToddG;84188] if not for the fact that I wanted to avoid becoming "the HK shooter" I would have done a third HK the next year. QUOTE]

    P2000? Just curious what HK you would've chosen after doing the P30 and HK45?

  5. #575
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    Alright... I went out in left field, I'll admit it.

    My 1911 had a soul... a soul black as coal, it was evil and dark and angry, mad too. And good lord it hated 10 round magazines, with a firestorm of passion.

    Alright, What I'd say is the Glock had no personality, it wasn't unique, it wasn't hip, it wasn't happening. It was talking Jive. Mad. Jive.

    All joking aside.

    What I'm trying to say is there's an intangible element of endearment that the gun just doesn't have for a lot of people. It contributes to a joyless and lackluster experience. They're neat because they meet expectation and are fairly reliable.

    I probably will never be able to satisfactorily quantify what I'm trying to express this gun lacks, but whatever *it* is. It lacks it. I don't have the feeling of ownership or personal property associated with the Glock like I did the Dan Wesson. Feels like I bought a Honda Accord of guns to lend back to the original example. When people look at it you say "Eh, it does what I need it to do well, it's affordable, and plentiful."

    What I contribute this to is, I really think Gaston Glock, the furniture manufacturer from Austria, looked at a gun, and said "Let's industrial engineer this", lightened it with the most modern (at that time) materials, developed the highest capacity magazine they could in a full size frame, put a polygonal barrel in it, in the NATO Caliber, borrowed from every design what they thought was useful and tried to develop it to be mass produced at the lowest price.

    (ETA 2: and they did it, in 90 days, which, hats off to them, but, something like say the HK P7, was just simply put innovative, was it over ambitious and overly complicated? Sure. 1911, was a modern wonder gun when it came out, you could detail strip the thing with a .45 ACP Cartride, it was a semi-auto, and it was a cut down .45 Colt, it was a wild thing with a thumb safety and a grip safety for cavalry, it was innovative and just different, they were ambitious. The Glock looks like they said "What are the most established known technologies? How can we augment that to make manufacturing/design more efficient?" But, they weren't pushing the envelope, that's how I see it anyway. Again, don't lose any sleep over it. I didn't think I'd have to really dive into this "soul", "character", "identity" thing like I've had to. The term like building a better mouse trap come to mind, they tweaked things, etc.)

    Is that wrong? No, it's just a gun. It just kind of reminds me of a Model-T Ford, kind of fills that same "we make one car, in one color" niche.

    Don't you all dare act like I'm weird. I'm not the only one owning this "soul" thing.

    ETA: When I was a young lad, it reminds me of the days I loved 1911 lore deeply. There was a saying, people who are issued guns get Glocks, people who like guns buy 1911's, or something to that effect. Maybe this resonates with people, maybe it doesn't. It's been entertaining though.
    Last edited by BWT; 07-27-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Up1911Fan View Post
    P2000? Just curious what HK you would've chosen after doing the P30 and HK45?
    They asked me what I'd like to shoot and I jokingly said I'd like them to build me a pair of P30s in 357 SIG. They said they'd ask Germany but "it shouldn't be a problem."

    Integrity forced me to decline. Not only would it have been a silly test -- a gun no one would ever be able to buy -- but in my heart I knew I'd find a couple of crazy HK zealots (multiple redundancies in that phrase) and sell them each for enough money to buy myself a small island.

  7. #577
    Licorice Bootlegger JDM's Avatar
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    Can you order me a USP in 10mm?
    Nobody is impressed by what you can't do. -THJ

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOM View Post
    Can you order me a USP in 10mm?
    With or without soul?

  9. #579
    Licorice Bootlegger JDM's Avatar
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    Without! But if it could have my (other) children....

    And by an, I mean 7. Seven 10mm USPs. And 84 full cap magazines.

    Please email me the total.
    Nobody is impressed by what you can't do. -THJ

  10. #580
    Licorice Bootlegger JDM's Avatar
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    All for personal use. I'd never sell any of them. Ever. For any reason.

    On that note, if they were the stainless slide version...

    ETA: if you could ensure 2 were roll marked "10MM" and 3 were marked "10MM AUTO" and if one was marked "10" and the final was marked "HAMMER OF JESUS "THOR" CHRIST". That would be great.

    Again, all for personal use. I'd never fathom marking for sale a factory stainless 10MM Hk USP with 12 factory magazines.
    Last edited by JDM; 07-28-2012 at 12:24 AM.
    Nobody is impressed by what you can't do. -THJ

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