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Thread: Suicide rate outpaces line of duty deaths

  1. #21
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    Sherman,

    Do you see any correlations between the two fields?
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  2. #22
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    I lost more coworkers to suicide than guns and knives during my career. With the last one, it happened on my days off. He was an old coworker and friend from my previous assignment and I'd known him since day one. Everyone in my then current chain of command knew I knew him, yet no one bothered to make a call. I found out when I came back to work and checked my email. Then, it was only an email covering donations due to his passing. I had to find out a man I'd known for over fifteen years had killed himself by asking dispatch for the particulars. The upper chain was completely mum and acted as if they wanted to pretend it hadn't happened. They'd check off the suicide box by giving us an hour class every other year at inservice that would make you want to put a gun in your own mouth. Administrations aren't one of the contributors to officer suicide, they're the number one contributor.
    Last edited by Trooper224; 01-11-2019 at 10:27 PM.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    Sherman,

    Do you see any correlations between the two fields?
    I do. Had I not started in public safety before dentistry, then going back to public safety (as a reservist) I probably wouldn’t notice any correlations. However, much like, “The Matrix,” or, “They Live,” thematic archetypes, when you see the obvious indicators of drug use/abuse/violence/crime, you notice them everywhere. That jaded/informed my career early on, since I started work as a dentist in public health, and in correctional dentistry (pulling teeth on inmates).

    Up until very recently, it wasn’t uncommon for me to see 20-50 drug seeking adults in one week. Other providers would often cave to their whims because they didn’t know the scam. When you can spot the grifters, and you see the same folks in the office that you see on patrol, it gets weird. You gain an increased capability at people management, seeing through the bullshit (lost my prescription, someone stole it, usual doctor on vacation, etc.) and generally just being an astute student at being acutely aware of how awful people are. And even when they do need legitimate help, there’s a greater than zero risk I assume physically, dealing with them due to all of the pathogens they’re often infested with. They also aren’t above stealing or robbing you for drugs/money, or threatening you in an attempt to get 16 hydrocodones.

    If you don’t have a sense of humor and a grand sense of purpose and your place in the world, it can seem like a hopeless predicament. Compound that with the pressure of having to make a certain amount of money to pay your student loans, and life can be pretty bleak.

    Both vocations, aim to help people. And help people you DO, but you also have to put up with an inordinate amount of turds to get the good. Private family practice is better. Lower frequency of weasels, since a nice practice in an affluent area is generally an intangible barrier to care for those from the wrong side of the tracks. Although a few still make it through, wherever you are. Much like policing...you can work in the smallest, sleepiest country town, and even then, bad things happen.

    Those are a few of the similarities I see/contend with.


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  4. #24
    Also, my old, so I feel I should state that I’m not, “liking,” posts in this thread because I like the content, but because cops are generally not sharing types, and I want you to know that I’m reading, and hearing you.

    I do that habitually on this thread about generally benign topics, but this one hits close to home on many levels, so I feel the need to expound.


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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    I lost more coworkers to suicide than guns and knives during my career. With the last one, it happened on my days off. He was an old coworker and friend from my previous assignment and I'd known him since day one. Everyone in my then current chain of command knew I knew him, yet no one bothered to make a call. I found out when I came back to work and checked my email. Then, it was only an email covering donations due to his passing. I had to find out a man I'd known for over fifteen years had killed himself by asking dispatch for the particulars. The upper chain was completely mum and acted as if they wanted to pretend it hadn't happened. They'd check off the suicide box by giving us an hour class every other year at inservice that would make you want to put a gun in your own mouth. Administrations aren't one of the contributors to officer suicide, they're the number one contributor.
    Trooper, this mindset among administrators is an example of incompetence, and until these folks cease to be selected for advancement, the guys at the bottom will receive little support. These types of leaders have allowed a certain culture of fear to exist--fear of losing one's career and fear of stigma and exclusion when declaring a need for mental health treatment.

    Cop's live in an either/or world with an emphasis on objectivity. Perhaps not processing shades of gray in their personal lives makes depressed officers view their lives as either ok or fucked up with no possibilities in between. Some see themselves trapped in situations where death is the only escape. Part of being trapped is belonging to an insensitive organization that ignores all the variables bringing about the problem discussed here.

  6. #26
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    Years ago I attended a Weed & Seed conference in Tampa. One of the presentations was on LE suicide. The presenter was the widow of an FBI agent who was doing a lot of deep cover narc stuff in the 80's and took his own life.

    Some of the take-aways that I recall:

    1) Cops are generally Type A personalities, and are used to problem solving in the moment...we respond to a situation, make a decision, then execute that decision.

    2) Cops have responded to numerous suicides and attempts. Cops don't swallow pills or stick their heads into ovens. They pick the quickest, most effective method.

    3) Cops and .mil are about the only two professions were killing is a problem-solving option on the table.
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  7. #27
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Interesting. We are on page three, and nobody has yet typed that “suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.”

    In actuality, depression is not a temporary problem; it is a life-long struggle. Some of us hide it very well.

  8. #28
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    As a veteran and an officer I have seen it on both sides.

    I try to leverage my position as a Sergeant and mentor to talk about this issue with my officers.

    I believe that my "street cred" , miltary an tactical experience over 20 years gives me an advantage to gain the attention of the young cops so that they will listen without dismissing me vs. if they are "ordered" to attend training on the subject by admin

    As important as preparing them for the use of force and deadly force scenarios as well as internal struggles with administration, is inculcating them within an environment in which they feel comfortbale talking about the effects of "the job" mentally and emotionally

    I try to do this by my own example...i talk about those calls that bothered me..about the long term effects of the job
    And how it has affected me personally

    I tell my guys that I have PTSD and attend therapy..that there is hope even with the deep dark struggles

    I am an advocate for critical incident stress management, EMDR and accelerated resolution therapy for PTSD and trauma

    We as peers and formal leaders need to take the lead in officer wellness in all regards but especially trauma

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman A. House DDS View Post
    ...I’m not, “liking,” posts in this thread because I like the content, but because cops are generally not sharing types, and I want you to know that I’m reading, and hearing you.
    This; legit.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    I lost more coworkers to suicide than guns and knives during my career. With the last one, it happened on my days off. He was an old coworker and friend from my previous assignment and I'd known him since day one. Everyone in my then current chain of command knew I knew him, yet no one bothered to make a call. I found out when I came back to work and checked my email. Then, it was only an email covering donations due to his passing. I had to find out a man I'd known for over fifteen years had killed himself by asking dispatch for the particulars. The upper chain was completely mum and acted as if they wanted to pretend it hadn't happened. They'd check off the suicide box by giving us an hour class every other year at inservice that would make you want to put a gun in your own mouth. Administrations aren't one of the contributors to officer suicide, they're the number one contributor.
    I’m sorry. And yes, I agree, those one hour professional development made in the 60’s are awful!

    Suicide in KS is way up, cop or not, 40% since 1999. Suicide in America is up. It’s a real problem. Of course advocating for social programs in America makes you a communist, and our healthcare doesn’t do much to help. It’s a freaking mess.

    Here’s an interesting story about how this has become a national problem.

    Why US suicide rate is on the rise http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44416727

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