Ah, I see. I was curious if it was possible to make an expanding and less velocity dependent round in something in the size range of the 5.7(i.e. something that could be put in a practically sized pistol, not an AR15 'pistol' sized platform) in line with things like the TSX and Gold Dot loadings in .223 that work better out of short barrels that don't require full length barrel velocities for good performance. Or at least something that approaches decent 9mm performance out of the FiveSeven in terms of consistent deep penetration with some expansion for tissue crushing damage like in most pistol caliber offerings, but retaining the light recoil and control you get with the smaller calibers.
Would something like a 40 grain Gold Dot soft point designed to expand at the velocities obtainable from a 5 inch pistol be able to get the required 12"-18" inches of penetration while say expanding to .30? Or is that basically impossible to accomplish?
I'd think you'd run out of available metal or velocity before you're going to get much expansion from a 40gr. .224" diameter bullet.
Since the P90 is a straight blowback design you're not going to be able to up the velocity/pressure without blowing shit up next to your face.
I think the best way to get "expansion" out of these little bullets is a fast yaw and maybe the bullet flattens out to a slightly wider side profile.
Basically what the SS198LF does now on yaw and penetration (except they don't flatten out).
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-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
You've given something to think about. I'm trying to deal with the lack of a good HD long gun. My wife and both my kids are left-eye dominant and are in the habit of shooting long guns left handed (I'm not). My wife hates the AR (thank you Army) and a shotgun is a little more than my youngest daughter is interested in. The PS90 is an option that I hadn't considered. I've found the balance on the 16" actually better than the 10". Though the 10" on full-auto was fun on the test range in Afghanistan so many moons ago.
That's another option. Though in this Commonwealth, I think I'm limited to pre-1994 25 round magazines.
Ancient history but Jeff Cooper once said of a prototype gas operated pistol, that while of no benefit to 9mm, it might make possible a Mach three .17 caliber that would "burn through" any usual body armor.
We don't have the propellants to do that now.
Could we profitably revive the .224 Boz?
Code Name: JET STREAM
Technical sub-forum, technical content:
OP: The bottom line is that caliber per se (i.e., diameter of projectile) does not determine terminal performance. Note that it seems to be pretty much impossible to load a .380 ACP round that is as effective a defensive round as a 9x19; the .380 ACP is also known as 9x17. A silly two millimeters shorter, and the high-end slugs will not perform.
Can you design a .22 bullet that will perform as well as HST or whatever? Dunno. I have doubts, but I am no expert on the topic.
Digression:
This reminds me of an email group I was on, the subject of some new wildcat came up, "something" necked down to take "something else". I proposed .50 BMG brass necked down to take .22 or .17 projectiles, and the list owner suggested 20mm necked down for phonograph needles...
Recovering Gun Store Commando. My Blog: The Clue Meter
“It doesn’t matter what the problem is, the solution is always for us to give the government more money and power, while we eat less meat.”
Glenn Reynolds
Yes, a common reductio ad absurdism.
The greatest neckdown I know of was the .30 Medical Museum, .30x.50, made to study the effect of shell fragments on cadavers and animals in an aimable platform.
There were also the .22x.300 Weatherby and .22x.284 Win.
The Boz was a real gun, .22x10mm in cahoots with STI and maybe Glock.
The British developers threatened legal action against Colonials making anything of the sort for other than Authorized Personnel.
See also .22 Zipperer, a neckdown of 9x23.
The present .22 TCM is a pale shadow.
Last edited by Jim Watson; 01-10-2019 at 07:57 PM.
Code Name: JET STREAM
I could have sworn I've actually read about a .22/50, but I can't find any evidence of it right now.
Best I can come up with right now is the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_...n_Loudenboomer
(Bottom line is, if it sounds stupid enough, someone has probably already done it. )