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Thread: Question about "Production"

  1. #1
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    Question about "Production"

    I am no longer an active USPSA competitor but competed for a long time - started 1986. I watch the sport evolve including adding comps, adding RDS, high cap, etc. Shot Open, Limited, and Production - finished shooting Production. When "Production" started the theme as the time was to attract new shooters with a lower cost of entry plus pistols that you can find at your LGS.

    Seems like "Production" has evolved into a 9mm, 10 round capacity event dominated by pistols that the majority of shooters would not normally find at a LGS and that cost $1000+ before modifications. I realize that USPSA is a "game" and fully support that USPSA and other shooting sports have improved firearms in general - especially optics - but hate to see Production leave its roots.

  2. #2
    Not sure what your question is exactly.

    I see mostly GLocks, M&Ps, and XDs at local matches in production and Limited. As for 9MM, with the minor PF only scoring, there is not much reason to shoot any other caliber. Doubly so when Limited and Single stack cater specifically to .40s, .45s and what else
    Last edited by Artemas2; 01-05-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    You can do just fine in Production with a Glock 34, and there are many other good options that won't break the bank. And for what it is, a CZ Shadow2 is a steal at $1100. Compare that with $4k+ to shoot Open...
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  4. #4
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    You can do just fine in Production with a Glock 34, and there are many other good options that won't break the bank.
    Hell, you can do just fine with a G19 or G17. Maybe to compete at the highest levels, you need something special, but certainly not to get started.

    And for what it is, a CZ Shadow2 is a steal at $1100. Compare that with $4k+ to shoot Open...
    I shot a friend's Shadow once. It was super nice, but I just can't get over the manual decocking procedure required. It always strikes me as an extra opportunity to DQ *and* injure oneself at the same time that just isn't present on DA/SA pistols with decocking levers/switches/buttons, and of course the manual safety is entirely irrelevant in Production; all it serves to do in that role is provide an opportunity to accidentally have the gun not go bang when you want it to. It would be nice if somebody at CZ could crack the code of getting a good trigger out of the CZ-75BD and translating that into a decocker version of the Shadow/Shadow2. I still wouldn't be able to justify purchasing one, but I'd at least be able to justify *wanting* one.

  5. #5
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    I was looking at a thread about the guns used at the recent Production Nationals.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    You can do just fine in Production with a Glock 34, and there are many other good options that won't break the bank. And for what it is, a CZ Shadow2 is a steal at $1100. Compare that with $4k+ to shoot Open...
    No doubt the Shadow2 is awesome. I guess that is my point - Open =$4k, Limited = $2+k, and now Production = $1+K?

  7. #7
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemas2 View Post
    I see mostly GLocks, M&Ps, and XDs at local matches in production and Limited. As for 9MM, with the minor PF only scoring, there is not much reason to shoot any other caliber.
    I guess there might be some efficacy to loading 135- or 165-grain .40 to minor and using it for the slightly bigger holes, assuming you could get a .40 gun to run properly at 130-135 PF. You'd be marginally more likely to catch the perf dividing scoring zones that way. It's not like the mag capacity disadvantage .40 normally suffers from vs 9mm matters in Production since you can't load more than 10. I expect it would cost more to load per round than 9mm, though, so...?

    I'm certainly not about to buy a .40 gun and set of reloading dies just to try to figure it out.

  8. #8
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger View Post
    and now Production = $1+K?
    Even at the very highest level of competition in Production division, there is still a significant fraction of competitors shooting the G34 and the Walther Q5, which both come in well under $1K. I don't think anybody is debating that USPSA is an expensive sport to get into in general, but anybody who is competing at the level where shooting a Tanfo or a Shadow/Shadow 2 *might* make the difference between placing highly and not doing well is spending WAY more money on plane tickets, hotels, match fees, and ammo than on the 2-3 identical copies of their chosen gun that they have.
    Last edited by olstyn; 01-05-2019 at 12:31 PM.

  9. #9
    I wonder if people that don’t compete in curling go on curling forums and complain about how that sport has evolved.

    Also, someone tell Vogel and Coley they can’t be competitive without a CZ.
    Last edited by BigD; 01-05-2019 at 12:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Question about "Production"

    You don't want to be frustrated just starting out. It depends on how your matches are set up. If you're likely to see 25+ yd mini poppers and the like, I'd recommend a gun you can shoot confidently. If that's a G19, good on you. But, I've seen quite a few very frustrated U and D class shooters trying to make their compacts work for Production. Of course, a lot of that is skill, but bigger guns are easier to shoot well.

    About decocking a CZ with your finger: it's not a big deal. Just get someone to show you how to do it right (stick index finger with pad toward hammer in between hammer and firing pin, rotate finger to ease hammer down). I've done it and seen it done 1000's of times and have never seen an ND.

    A decocker adds complexity where it is not needed. I would never use one for competition.

    The safety is a bigger concern. I had mine go on at Area 1 Championship last year, and it cost me a lot of time. I have now installed DS Perman extra-power safety springs and the problem is solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    Hell, you can do just fine with a G19 or G17. Maybe to compete at the highest levels, you need something special, but certainly not to get started.

    I shot a friend's Shadow once. It was super nice, but I just can't get over the manual decocking procedure required. It always strikes me as an extra opportunity to DQ *and* injure oneself at the same time that just isn't present on DA/SA pistols with decocking levers/switches/buttons, and of course the manual safety is entirely irrelevant in Production; all it serves to do in that role is provide an opportunity to accidentally have the gun not go bang when you want it to. It would be nice if somebody at CZ could crack the code of getting a good trigger out of the CZ-75BD and translating that into a decocker version of the Shadow/Shadow2. I still wouldn't be able to justify purchasing one, but I'd at least be able to justify *wanting* one.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 01-05-2019 at 01:16 PM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

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