Slow fire group issue that I can't identify

[flyrodr]

OK, I have to work on my trigger control, a lot, or I'll anticipate sights being centered and involuntarily rush the shot - - - call it a jerk, flinch, whatever. But I can't figure out if it's just the trigger finger, or the entire grip tightening or what.

Now that I'm working hard with a red dot, my groups are better, but the "misses" are more apparent, standing out from the better groups.

Using "The Test" as an example, if I shoot at a regular cadence to meet the time standard, I can shoot it in the low to mid 90s. If I'm using the red dot (definitely have trouble seeing black irons against the B-8 black center), I can occasionally shoot 100 (occasionally). BUT, if I shoot at the same target very deliberately, without time constraints, I almost always shoot a lower score, and frequently throw the first shot considerably off (yes, low left). Sometimes I can call it, because of an anticipatory jerk.

I don't seem to have the flyers as much when shooting at a larger target. For instance, I frequently use a silhouette that has a white background, with an eight-inch center ring and a three-inch orange "bullseye", and an additional four-inch (+/-) head ring with a one-inch orange center. I can routinely shoot a better (tighter) 10-shot group in the center than I can in the head.

There's some tension, some place, but I can't seem to definitively say it's in the trigger finger. Or for certain that it's the first shot. But think it's both of those. Tried searching this sub-forum, but apparently can't narrow the search, being overwhelmed with responses.

Oh, when I dry fire, I can keep the dot pretty still, but when I don't, it'll jump left. I have smallish hands and short fingers, and do catch my trigger finger against the frame at times, so I guess it could be a push, but it happens sometimes when I'm sure my finger is clear of the frame.

I'm thinking, but obviously not sure, that the time constraints "force" me to work the trigger more smoothly, whereas on the deliberate shots, I look for that "perfect" alignment and when I see it, I rush the pull. Just not sure.

If it matters, I'm mostly shooting an M&P 2.0 Compact with an Apex D/C trigger and RMR. Although I must say the gun I shoot best is a very old M&P 1.0 Compact, also with the D/C and RMR. The pull weights are about the same (5 - 5 1/4 lb), but I rarely experience the "jump" in the older gun.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

[ASH556]

This may or may not do it for you but something I figured out awhile back and recently remembered was to press the trigger smoothly but quickly. When I slow down my trigger press and stage it is when I start getting all kinds of weird quirks.

[jwhitt]

I went through the same thing when transitioning to a dot. When using iron sights, your eyes can track them closely as they rise and fall and make small corrections to your trigger pull as necessary before/after breaking the shot. When shooting a dot, your eyes are focused on the target and thus it provides less feedback to the brain with respect to trigger pull, causing some shots to get away from you sometimes - especially at speed. Basically, any bad trigger/grip habits you have will become magnified. Also, as you mentioned, a bobbing dot provides lots of information that can overwhelm the brain, causing one to rush (or second guess) a shot. Two things helped me: (1) shooting very small dots (2" at 7-10 yds) and/or long range USPSA targets (50 yards) under time pressure, and (2) focusing on calling my shots where the dot lifts from - not where you initially place it. By placing visual attention on knowing where the dot lifts from, you increase awareness of your trigger control and improve shot discipline. Of course grip hard and try to keep the dot in the window during recoil. Essentially, focus on follow-through and grip and your issue should resolve itself. Just stick with it, once you break through you will be happy you switched to a dot.