Grip Force Adapter not legal in SSP for IDPA

[abu fitna]

I also wonder what this means for ctc laser grips. As I understood it, these were legal with laser off or taped blackout, so long as the gun wasn't oversized or if the grips were not overweight. But this complicates that logic if one would argue that they provide any grip improvement. Not my argument, but this kind of logic trap is killing reasonable range of what folks actually carry. And at the end of the day this reduces the simulation value.

Someone please feel free to correct me if I am missing something in all of this? Or is it just one more step in returning idpa to a 1911 game, to rid the field of the upstarts?

[JHC]

The SSP/ESP is messed up IMO - it could be a lot simplier is they just said no external after market modifications in SSP but they didn't they chose this other way to go where everything that hits the market is supposed to be individually inspected to see if it is "close enough" to a factory part. So now there are all these aftermarket widgets that people get attached to and pester each other and IDPA with - it's really really close to factory so I should be able to use it in SSP - my take is, if it's sooo close to factory, then use the factory part.

The ruling on the Vickers mag release is a lot like this - yes it is very close to a factory part, but most people who've used one consider it to be much better (which I think means that it's enhanced)

Which way did they end up on the Vickers mag release? Which almost identical to the one the factory provides the FBI. (Vickers was first IIRC).

[JeffJ]

Last I checked the vickers release was illegal for SSP

[Motor-T]

I guess I just look at it differently. The GFA isn't illegal for IDPA. You just shoot in the ESP class because you've enhanced your pistol.

[HeadHunter]

I guess I just look at it differently. The GFA isn't illegal for IDPA. You just shoot in the ESP class because you've enhanced your pistol.

There it is. Unless concerned about being "beaten" by some gamer shooting a 9mm 1911, it's a non-issue.

[jar]

There it is. Unless concerned about being "beaten" by some gamer shooting a 9mm 1911, it's a non-issue.

I don't think the SSP vs ESP distinction really matters that much. Shooter skill is far more important that a few minor equipment differences. The magwell is the only thing that I think might make a significant difference. I wouldn't care a bit if they merged the divisions.

[MikeyC]

I've never completely understood the need for distinction unless it was one of those things they stuck in there to be "more different" than IPSC/USPSA. There's also rough 10 seconds taken off of the cutoff times, which would need to be attended to.

[jetfire]

From what I understand, back in the 90s when IDPA first started the idea was that ESP would be for guns like 1911s in 9mm or .38 Super with magwells and race gear attached to it, while SSP would be dominated by DA/SA guns. At the time, there was the belief that you couldn't shoot a DA/SA as fast as a single action 1911. The dominance of striker fired guns in the LE market tossed that on its head though, and effectively rendered the distinction moot. Dan Burwell won ESP at the Indoor Nats shooting an M&P Pro in 9mm. Out of the top five finishes in CDP, three of them were using polymer framed guns, Glock 21s and M&P45s.

[ToddG]

Sort of.

SSP was supposed to be the Everyman division. Grab your Ruger P85, an Uncle Mike's holster, and you can run with the big dogs. Except, of course, you cannot.

ESP was originally going to be for BHPs and .38 Super 1911s. It was where all the "race kids" were supposed to compete, out of sight of the True Warriors shooting either SSP or .45 1911s in CDP.

Then guns like the XD came out that challenged old fashioned thinking about pistol actions. More people began using little enhancements to their pistols -- whether it's a Vickers slide stop or a GFA. The concept behind SSP makes it difficult to have logical rules. You can get an extended Glock slide release on a delivered pistol, so that's legal. You can't get a Vickers slide release on a pistol straight from Glock, so it's not. It's not about which part gives you an advantage, it's about whether the gun is "stock" in the classic sense.

On its face, I don't really have a problem with the distinction. Folks have been winning ESP with Glocks and similar guns for a long time now, so it's not like there is some perception that you're at a disadvantage over the 9mm 1911 shooter. The only issue is that it's very easy to skip from SSP into ESP without meaning to. For example, I took an emory board to the magwell and trigger guard of my P30. Suddenly... it's ESP. To be honest, if I'd shot an IDPA match in '09 I don't know that I would have remembered that. The change was minor and I never thought about it.

All three semiauto divisions are dominated by striker fired guns now. That should be a clue that the old distinctions need to go. But completely changing such a fundamental aspect of IDPA might be more than they're willing to do, or more than they think is necessary. There's also the unavoidable fact that IDPA and a major 1911 manufacturer are intrinsically linked and that will always have a certain amount of influence on the rules.

[orionz06]

Competition only apparel is also not IDPA legal but they will sell you a vest...