I don't get the Glock Grip cliche - evidence

[ASH556]

It seems to me like there are 2 different versions of "Glock grip angle" being discussed here. One (the left bias thing) actually has more to do with hand size, finger length, and trigger interface. The other is the actual angle of the grip and whether the gun "points high" or not for the shooter.

I probably don't have as many training badges or rounds fired as @TCinVA , but I do have more than a few thousand rounds through Glocks and other pistols as well. Also, regarding some of the performance metric qualifiers he mentioned:

Rangemaster Bullseye, 297, 298, or 299/300 depending upon who you ask, with a stock G45:


25yd 3x5 Freestyle, stock G19:


25yd B8 Freestyle, stock G45:


3:00 IWB concealed FAST w/G45. Multiple runs including a 4.94 clean. Note the lack of left bias even running at speed:


Now, to address part one of the question: Left Bias. I do have my rear sights drifted slightly right of center. I'd be more inclined to buy that it was something off in my trigger press were it not for the fact that whether it's 7yds or 25yds, fast or slow, I'm still getting center hits. Furthermore, even in shooting WHO I still get the same POI. If it was my right trigger finger pushing shots left, it should reverse in shooting WHO, right? The fact that with the same sight alignment, and same POA, I'm getting the same POI, seems to kill this theory.

Now, on part about "pointing high" I have come to agree with that 100%. When I switched to Beretta only for a month (2,500 rounds) earlier this year, I initially found the Beretta to point low for me. That's carryover from index from years of shooting Glocks. Conversely, when I put the Beretta down and picked the Glock back up, guess what???? The Glock pointed high! Amazing! So yes, a Glock points high for me...so what? Shoot the sights. You'll still hit what you need to. And also, within 200 rounds, my index shifted so that the Glock again presented correctly working at speed out of the holster.

[MGW]

A 9mm Glock is the only pistol I've ever wanted to pitch downrange. They baffle me. If I feel myself make a bad shot or let my mechanics breakdown then so be it. Glocks just don't give me the feedback I need to figure them out. I can go check a target after a course of fire and wonder WTF just happened. I don't know if that's operator error or grip angle or what but I'm pretty much done with them.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

A 9mm Glock is the only pistol I've ever wanted to pitch downrange. They baffle me. If I feel myself make a bad shot or let my mechanics breakdown then so be it. Glocks just don't give me the feedback I need to figure them out. I can go check a target after a course of fire and wonder WTF just happened. I don't know if that's operator error or grip angle or what but I'm pretty much done with them.

You're just holding it wrong, Glock is perfection after all...

This was my experience with Glock 17 Gen 3/4, I just could not get them to work with any consistency. I have midget fingers though, so that may have something to do with it. I think I'd probably fare better with them now, but I've sworn them off after dealing with their Customer Service not doing anything to fix the ejection problems.

[Dave T]

In "The Interview" DB said we humans are adaptive creatures, as he hold up a semi auto and a revolver. He then suggests learning to do both. Forgive my rather casual interpretation of what you said Darryl but I think I got the gist of it correct.

OK, so if we can train ourselves to go from a semi DA/SA, DAO, or SA, to a DA revolver, then back again how is it beyond mankind's ability to learn to shoot a friggin' Glock?

Dave

[Guinnessman]

@TCinVA

Which grip combo do you use for the P30?

In my limited amount of rounds thru a G45, I feel that the flat sides of the grip, plus no finger grooves, help the gun stay firmly gripped in my hands. I think the beaver tail helps as well.

I will be able to compare the G45 and P30 when my range finally opens up. This summer range closure is driving me nuts.

[Papa Bear]

People prefer lots of different pistols, for all sorts of reasons. Upon first exposure, there have been pistols I naturally shot better, and some I shot worse. Why? They aren’t the same guns. Pretty simple. Time on a platform is a pretty good equalizer for variables.

In 2019 there are a lot of good answers to the “gun for you.” If its a well made and reliable gun that fits the role you’re trying to fill well, shoot the piss out of it. Train with it. Dry fire with it. You’ll get good with it no matter what it is, so long as you’re not trying make an XXL gun fit an XS hand or vice versa.

Just one man’s opinion.

[MGW]

OK, so if we can train ourselves to go from a semi DA/SA, DAO, or SA, to a DA revolver, then back again how is it beyond mankind's ability to learn to shoot a friggin' Glock?

Dave

I wish I knew the answer to that.

[0ddl0t]

I would argue that your index is less pistol frame agnostic than other index points. But since I can’t see YOUR hands on an example frame, I’m completely guessing in the dark.

I would suggest trying the following location that I’m pointing at on my own finger as an index point underneath the trigger guard and rolling your grip in place. When hand is in place, clamp down hard and see if that works better.

I find this index to be pretty pistol frame agnostic as I’m able to get maximum surface area contact with various frames (Glock, Beretta, 1911, CZ, SIG).




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I'd normally have my knuckle resting against the underside of the trigger guard, so I had to stretch my support arm/hand a bit farther forward to obtain your index. But it did seem to work better: decent group size just to the right of POA and I didn't feel the need to shift my grip around after a few shots. I'll keep experimenting...

[spinmove_]

I'd normally have my knuckle resting against the underside of the trigger guard, so I had to stretch my support arm/hand a bit farther forward to obtain your index. But it did seem to work better: decent group size just to the right of POA and I didn't feel the need to shift my grip around after a few shots. I'll keep experimenting...

Yes, indeed give that more time. I’ve found that, for me, while I don’t have the same thumb to thumb weld that I would have had with my support hand further back, the benefits of getting a more secure clamp on the left side of the gun with my support hand more than make up for it.


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[spinmove_]

In "The Interview" DB said we humans are adaptive creatures, as he hold up a semi auto and a revolver. He then suggests learning to do both. Forgive my rather casual interpretation of what you said Darryl but I think I got the gist of it correct.

OK, so if we can train ourselves to go from a semi DA/SA, DAO, or SA, to a DA revolver, then back again how is it beyond mankind's ability to learn to shoot a friggin' Glock?

Dave

It’s not. I think it’s a perfect storm of Glocks being one of the least ergonomically correct pistols on the market, people who don’t know how to shoot not knowing how to shoot, the amount of poor instruction on the fundamentals available, and how prolific Glocks are all contribute to this phenomenon.

Mankind can figure it out, we already have. That’s evidenced by people winning competitions and real gunfights with Glocks. Glocks are just difficult to work with from a human interface perspective and most people aren’t willing to put the time and effort into making it work or they simply don’t know that it can work, they just assume “Glocks just shoot left”. With all of the other more ergonomic platforms out there, I can’t really blame too many people for not wanting to go down that path.


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