I need to study the system and get past my assumptions. I'm supposed to be better informed. Thank you.
I need to study the system and get past my assumptions. I'm supposed to be better informed. Thank you.
Definitely some Glock Autism in this thread.
First and foremost if you think Glock is the only answer, then that is how you'll attack the problem. IT's a buyers market, and not everyone on here drives a Ford F-150 or a honda civic. Just saying. Plenty of proven guns out there, and plenty of people who can shoot them just as well/fast as Glock shooters. Case and point, Todd G among a long list of others.
So, I started shooting in 1911's and an HK P7M8. Then I enlisted in the Navy, and started shooting berettas. Then my first pistol was a USPc 40 LEM, then a USP 45 V1, then an HK45 V1, then a Glock 19 Gen 3 was my first 9mm and glock I had ever owned at that point. I shot it well, but I had to work on my draws to shoot it properly. Because the front sight would crown on me when drawing and presenting on target. Because the grip angle is scientifically, undeniably, and plainly available to be confirmed by google search to be different. Also, the grip on a glock is significantly thicker than other guns in its class. The Gen 4/5 mitigated this. But a G21 really flexes on my MARK 23's grip. I wear medium mechanix gloves and I run my MARK 23 just fine. IT's at the edge of what I can COMFORTABLY grip and control. I did not like the Gen 3 G21's. I couldn't run them as well. They were also thick in the wrong spots for me. Glocks have to be 9mm for me in general. Though I still have a small....super tiny place in my heart for the 30s.
That being said, you could train to shoot a hi-point well. Did I have to work with my G19 to shoot it well? Yes. The grip angle was different and ALL of my other pistols pointed more naturally for me. I'm also definitely not a glock hater, but I sold out of my Glocks twice (never should have sold that Gen 3 it ran like a top.....unless it had a light on there and I was running 115's. But then I vowed to only run 124 NATO or 124 +p and never had the issue.), but I'm back into them again along with the rest of my wares. I'm primarily an HK guy, but you would have to kill me to get me to get rid of my G34. I'm also going to pick up a Gen 5 G17. The 17 and 34 fit me the best, and shoot the best for me. I can run a G19, but I haven't had one that runs well (went through two Gen 4's and shot a gen 5 19 with mixed results) and I'm still sour about selling my Gen 3. I just finished setting up my Gen 4 34 in fact and it's exactly where I want it. Shoots great and I can't stop taking it to the range. IT's my home defense gun now.
The point I will make is this. Comfort is a factor, especially when it's a buyers market. Glocks are proven and run well sure, they're popular. Almost everyone has one. Got it. They are neither elegant or a one size fits all gun. They do not function in a smooth manner compared to other guns with more refined actions. And there's stories out there about how glocks are not respected by other manufacturers because of how they'll still fire slightly out of battery. Very slightly, but still not in full lockup. Not till the 43 anyway. But I'm getting side tracked..... the comfort factor is important because if there's a gun that PROPERLY fits someone better and is more comfortable, they'll default to that gun. Like my wife with her VP9, quite frankly me too. But she carries a G17 on duty, and has to carry her new Gen5 G26 off duty, despite loving and shooting the VP9sk I bought her much better. Her department mandates a certain list of GLOCK off duty pistols. IF she's carrying and intervenes off duty with her VP9, it could land her in some trouble. Don't ask me why. Anywho, she shoots the lights out with the VP9 compared to the G17 and with the VP9sk compared to her 26. Why? partially comfort. Now don't get me wrong she still runs the glocks well enough to be very lethal. But the groups out of her HK's are always super tight. And a new shooter isn't going to want to hear "I know this one isn't as comfortable, but if you work at it more than the other gun that fits you and you already shoot straight, you can shoot it well too." They're going to say "fuck that, I'll just get the other one." Which recently happened to me. I was suggesting one of my guys get a Glock 19 or 26 as his first carry pistol, and to my surprise he shot the lights out with a P30sk V3. I mean night and day. He's a rifle shooter all day long, but struggles with pistols. The P30 fit him better, he somehow liked the trigger better and the results were clear as day on paper.
Glock isn't always the answer, and if someone doesn't prefer them or shoot them as well as something else......that's completely fine. They're not retarded because they can't. There's guns out there I don't shoot as well as others. I prefer my LEGION 226 or my HK's to my Glocks, but I still like and appreciate the glocks in my inventory/plan to buy a few more. I will also say, someone saying they "CAN'T shoot a glock" is silly to me. I'll entertain "I can't shoot it as well as other guns" all day long, but CAN'T is a very strong statement. Choose not to, I shoot other stuff better or I just don't like them, is completely fine at the end of the day.
Also that was smart with the comment about AR's and grips........some of you should self reflect on that.
I have never shot a Glock but have checked them out while looking for a compact pistol for possible concealed carry. Having shot mostly tda pistols or SAO versions of the same, mainly various SIGs and Beretta 92s I do find the grip angle a bit awkward. Nothing I don't think I couldn't become acclimated to with practice, but still a bit awkward nonetheless.
The reason I passed on the Glock was that the relatively squared off grip was really uncomfortable for me, especially for my right ring finger. I have been a mechanic for about 35 years and my hands are beat up as a result. On the base of both my ring fingers where the finger joins my hand I have a knot, maybe a ruptured tendon?? Anything that has any type of a 'corner' or squared off grip just doesn't work for me as it digs into that knot. I doubt I will ever own a Glock as a result.
I really wish this nonesense would stop. Just because someone doesn’t like something, doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of using it. I know one guy who doesn’t like the grip angle, and he have multiple national titles, with 1911s, revolvers, and 2 completely different striker fired handguns. I would not associate him with any of the 3 accusatory labels you suggest.Originally Posted by spinmove_
I’ve seen people change platforms and improve their shooting ability in a competitive environment, as well as the reverse happen. Probably the most extreme example would be someone shooting a Glock in Limited or open, and then moving to an STI. I’m NOT saying the gun alone is a contributing factor, nor am I saying it’s even a big factor, but it most certainly does play a role.
Okay. I've been shooting more and more seriously for the past 7 years. Started out with my only pistol being a 1911. Very briefly through an XD now on to many Glocks. Progressed from totally lost to a concealed carry class to IDPA and now into USPSA full tilt. I have shot little else but a Glock 17 or 34 for some time. Taking a little competitive break over the holidays so I broke out my 1911 and went to the range "just for fun" this week. Took a Colt Diamondback just for kicks as well.
Observations. (For me at least)
It's not the grip shape, it's the texture. (missed my sandpaper)
Shooting slow it doesn't matter.
Grip angle for sure matters on the draw.
I didn't miss the 1911 trigger like I thought I would.
Get an SCD from Tom Jones, install it, and put your thumb on it when holstering. Glock holstering safely made easy. I never owned a Glock until the SCD came out.
For me, HKs, 1911s, and revolvers all naturally point at the target when I draw. Glocks point high. Could I adapt with more practice? I'm sure. But why bother?
I disliked shooting my daughter's Glock 17 and the 26 was my single least fun gun to shoot, ever. On the other hand, my Glock 43 fits my hand well, probably because the small grips fills just the right place in my palm. If you're not constrained by work requirements, you may as well shoot something that feels right rather than feel you must master something else.
Real guns have hammers.
Truth!
If they have national titles then I would say they fall into the first category that I listed. Being intimately familiar with other platforms isn’t a bad thing and I never said it was. It’s just different and that’s ok.
I’m also not saying other people can’t switch platforms and see an improvement. In that statement I’m simply saying that *I* am not held back by Glocks at this time. Me switching platforms has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with perceived trigger attribute benefits and long term legislative planning.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My first centerfire pistol was a Gen3 G34. After a few range sessions, I realized that the undercut on the trigger guard was hitting my knuckle in just the right way to cause nerve damage. Numbness and tingling in the birdie finger that took 3-4 months to go away. Easy fix, I shaved some plastic and made the lump into a shallow ramp. But to this day, I won't do more than a magazine out of an unmodified G17/34 due to that issue. At ten rounds, it's obvious I need to stop.
I added a Grip Force Adapter and got it all dialed in, contouring it so it feels just right. Helped a little more with knuckle placement.
I kept the G34 around while I got into other stuff. Over the years, I found a deal on steel night sights and accumulated additional parts: Wayne's recommended Apex extractor and supporting OE parts, the upgraded ejector, NY1 spring, Gadget. Last summer, I decided it was time. Put it all together. Did a little deburring and smoothing on internal parts. Really like the NY1/- combo (see signature).
Dry fired for a few nights, then went to the range. Shot it OK. Did about four more nights of dry fire work with it. Realized I was still chasing the front sight on every presentation. Very annoying. I went to the safe and grabbed whatever was closest to the front. Happened to be a P220 that became a good deal when Gander Mountain dropped prices to 40 percent off. It was a "get around to it later" exploration. I had done zero training/practice with it. I tried a presentation. Instant, perfect sight picture. Same thing five more times. Went back to the safe and got a USP full size. Same thing. Perfect sight picture. Tried the G34. Chasing it.
That settled it for me. A week of work and still struggling up against zero work and perfect results on multiple other platforms. I probably could train to get results with the Glock eventually, but why? How much better would I be if I put that same effort into a platform that naturally works better for me?
I'd love to find someone with big hands who wants to buy a really nicely set up G34.
.
-----------------------------------------
Not another dime.
Reply With Quote