2019 Scout Rifle Build

[OlongJohnson]

I wonder if this will be the AR12 year for an “intermediate” cartridge that is too long to fit AR15 but does not require AR10 frame. Seems like the .mil new round may be in that length.

Wish someone would hurry up and put that in production.

[DamonL]

Wish someone would hurry up and put that in production.

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/...arly-2019.html

The Army is going to do some prototypes with an intermediate cartridge, but that does not mean they will eventually go to production.

Back on topic. There are several compact AR10's that could fit the GP semi-auto rifle concept on the market now. A few are the DPMS Gen 2, Savage MSR 10, POF Revolution, etc. If you search the internet, you will find posts about sending guns back to fix different issues for all these guns. So GJM did a smart thing by going with Wilson Combat who is known for good customer service. My very limited experience mirrors TCFD273 experience with AR10's. I had an early SR25 that used a Remington barrel. It was reliable through about 500 rounds I fired through it. The only issues were attributed to one bad mag. Accuracy was in the 1.25 to 1.5 range with factory match ammo. I know now that is good for a semi-auto. I sold that rifle many years ago.

Being on a budget, I just put together an Aero Precision M5E in .308 over the past several months. Total cost was under $900. All Aero Precision gun except for stock and grip. The gun was a bit over 9 lbs without optic and mount. Not lightweight at all. I just took it to the range for the first time this past weekend. I shoot a mix of surplus and match ammo. With factory match ammo, I started with a 2 inch group at a hundred and finished with a 1.5 inch group. This was shot rested on a bench.

I am really interested in seeing how ligweight, compact AR10 rifles will perform.

[OlongJohnson]

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/...arly-2019.html

The Army is going to do some prototypes with an intermediate cartridge, but that does not mean they will eventually go to production.

I don't think that is what I was referring to:

Top to bottom: Similarly equipped 7.62mm NATO caliber AR-10 Rifle (9.6 lbs.), 264 USA caliber AR-12 Rifle (7.2 lbs.) and 5.56mm NATO M4 Carbine (6.2 lbs.). The intermediate 264 USA caliber rifle weighs close to the M4 Carbine yet outperforms the 7.62mm NATO AR-10 weighing 2.4 pounds more.

[DamonL]

The .264 USA is approximately 6.8. I think the prototype is to see what type of firearms a companies can provide in the new caliber. The Next Gen carbine does not have to be an AR pattern. This is a step in the development process for a new rifle.

[rob_s]

I’ve wanted to think that a .308 semi-auto was a viable otion for a long time. I still don’t think it is, at least for me.

The bolt action still has several (potential) advantages, primary of which for me is cost, weight, and simplicity (vs the complexity of a semi auto).

[GJM]

Cooper specified a 1-2x scope, but grossly overstated its usefulness. Up close, they're faster than more powerful scopes but far harder to use beyond about 250 yards unless the target is in the open. His oft-cited maximum effective range of 400 yards may be true for the cartridge, but not for that optic.

Also, the ability to crank up magnification can come in very handy. Based on my experience with GP rifles, 4x is about right and a 3-9 covers a lot more bases than you'd think. If I anticipated a lot of very close range engagements, then 1-6 or 1-8 would get the nod.

A number of Gunsite alums have mentioned that the winner in 270 class shootoffs rarely if ever used a Scout, which I think is telling.


Okie John

Excellent! Very interesting about the 270 class shoot offs.

Barring a major mismatch in shooter ability, the gas .308 rifles dominated the Gunsite 270 shootoff for the same reason semi-auto rifles are popular with modern soldiers.

[HCM]

I don't think that is what I was referring to:

AMU has been using the DPMS Gen II small frame AR-10s as the test beds for the .264 and .277 USA rounds. The so-called “AR-12” depicted there appears to be a smallframe AR-10.

[OlongJohnson]

I was not aware of that. SAD that the Small Arms Defense Journal would put together that whole article and essentially misrepresent what it is talking about. Wonder if they even knew?

Presumably, the DPMS GII could be shrunk even farther for use with the USA cartridges. Which would be one reason for the .mil to not just buy a bunch of them already.

But I'll have to do some more research on the GII for myself, just to be up to speed if nothing else.

[Rex G]

I cannot quote chapter and verse, but let’s remember that Col. Jeff Cooper was not actually opposed to autoloading actions, for scout rifles. He wrote words to the effect that the autoloading actions of his time were not yet light enough, in weight, to be considered. Well, the autoloading rifle actions, of the present day, are certainly lighter in weight, than in the past.

I also seem to remember that “Chairman Jeff” wrote favorably, of efforts to build a bigger-bore cartridge, .30, if I recall correctly, based upon the same case head as the .223/5.56 NATO. Does this sound anything like .300 BLK? (I am not trying to say that .300 BLK has nearly the reach of a true intermediate rifle cartridge, but it is reasonably potent within .30 WCF range.)

I also seem to recall that the good Colonel finally mellowed, a bit, regarding the necessity for a scout rifle to “make weight.” I am not quite sure that the Steyr Scout fell within his original scout weight limit.

Perhaps, the man who codified the “scout rifle” concept, several decades ago, might well have a favorable opinion of an AR-based 21st-Century scout rifle, be it an original-sized action in .300 BLK or 6.8 SPC, or the somewhat larger action needed to accommodate .308 Winchester, etc.

Col. Jeff Copper was, actually, quite progressive, in his prime and middle age, looking for better ways to get things done, and promoting what worked. The 2019 Scout Rifle, based upon AR actions, is looking for better ways to get things done.

I just bought a Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 pistol, with the buffer tube on a LAW folder, and “brace.” (Yes, it is a niche weapon.) The 6.8 SPC has my attention, as the chambering for my next AR upper unit, as I have two complete lowers, awaiting jobs to do. This is going to be fun.

[DamonL]

POF USA is claiming a sub 7 pound .308 AR rifle.

https://pof-usa.com/firearms/revolution-di/